And the next Challenge Meister is...???????
March 21, 2011 3:57 PM
Hey guys, I'd like to do one more challenge for April and pass the torch on to someone new.
I'm totally having fun with it, but we have so many talented and imaginative folks here I though it would be cool to watch it evolve as it changes hands.
posted by snsranch (26 comments total)
I'm totally having fun with it, but we have so many talented and imaginative folks here I though it would be cool to watch it evolve as it changes hands.
I'd like to suggest something I've mooted before which I started doing on my Streetphoto forum and has been running for years now, initially biweekly but now monthly, without ever missing an iteration. Might be worth a try to change things up. It goes like this:
1. The current moderator chooses a subject
2. At end of month after all contributions are in, the moderator chooses the one of the entries according to whatever criteria s/he sees fit. They may or may not review entries or articulate their criteria but there's no need to -- their only duty is to pick an entry in a timely fashion.
3. Author of said chosen entry becomes the next month's moderator. If they don't wish to do this they can nominate someone else.
4. Rinse and repeat
posted by unSane at 5:01 PM on March 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
1. The current moderator chooses a subject
2. At end of month after all contributions are in, the moderator chooses the one of the entries according to whatever criteria s/he sees fit. They may or may not review entries or articulate their criteria but there's no need to -- their only duty is to pick an entry in a timely fashion.
3. Author of said chosen entry becomes the next month's moderator. If they don't wish to do this they can nominate someone else.
4. Rinse and repeat
posted by unSane at 5:01 PM on March 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Heck yea, unSane, that's a great idea! I hope some more folks show up with some "Yeas" in this matter.
posted by snsranch at 5:55 PM on March 21, 2011
posted by snsranch at 5:55 PM on March 21, 2011
I dunno, I have some concerns about the turnaround time here -- at the end of a month, the meister has to pick someone, inform them, and the pickee has to decide if they want to do it and what they want to do, and if they don't want to do it, they have to choose and inform someone else, who has to decide if they want to do it, and so on.
Maybe if there was an overlapping thing, where the person for (say) January picked the person for March during February, while February was being run by the person who ran December -- but that may be too complex and confusing in practice.
The thing is: I'd like to see the challenge announced as soon as possible, since (for me) a month is already a short time to get anything done.
(I start clicking the "Musicians looking for inspiration should check out our Monthly Music Challenges" link immediately after midnight on the first of the month, and every 20 minutes thereafter. This is not helped by the fact that the link always says "Updated!" whether or not anything has been updated.)
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 6:24 PM on March 21, 2011
Maybe if there was an overlapping thing, where the person for (say) January picked the person for March during February, while February was being run by the person who ran December -- but that may be too complex and confusing in practice.
The thing is: I'd like to see the challenge announced as soon as possible, since (for me) a month is already a short time to get anything done.
(I start clicking the "Musicians looking for inspiration should check out our Monthly Music Challenges" link immediately after midnight on the first of the month, and every 20 minutes thereafter. This is not helped by the fact that the link always says "Updated!" whether or not anything has been updated.)
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 6:24 PM on March 21, 2011
I understand the concern, Karlos, but what has happened in the version I've been running is that it's been done in a timely fashion because most people are flattered to be chosen and have a pet idea that they like to see done. Also, the somewhat added attention to the 'result' tends to focus minds a bit more as one theme transitions to another.
Anyway, like I say, it's been working for years in another context. It might work here or it might not...
posted by unSane at 6:48 PM on March 21, 2011
Anyway, like I say, it's been working for years in another context. It might work here or it might not...
posted by unSane at 6:48 PM on March 21, 2011
Karlos, I'm totally digging what you're saying. unSane's idea isn't set in stone. We can, all of us here, figure out what kind of life-span we think is most effective, fun or desirable. I was actually thinking that 3 or 4 months in the seat is pretty cool before changing hands. One month isn't enough, I don't think, but that doesn't at all negate unSane's idea. I think that's a good way to keep things alive and active.
Here's me kissing your ass a little bit; the one reason I would like to see a little more changing of hands is because I would LOVE to see what other creative people do with the challenges. That's you Karlos, and unSane and many others.
posted by snsranch at 7:01 PM on March 21, 2011
Here's me kissing your ass a little bit; the one reason I would like to see a little more changing of hands is because I would LOVE to see what other creative people do with the challenges. That's you Karlos, and unSane and many others.
posted by snsranch at 7:01 PM on March 21, 2011
I think unSane's idea is a runner with, perhaps, one rather brutal modification and one fiendish one.
1) You must take a turn at the wheel if your idea for the following month is chosen - no refusals or "the dog ate my homework" type excuses acceptable. If you don't want to share the load, don't put any ideas up. Simple.
2) If someone's idea is chosen twice in a row, the person who came up with the incumbent's second choice idea carries the can for the following month even though it's not their idea (heh heh heh, huh??). This avoids the possibility of the same person being caught several times in a row, getting pissed off and not taking part any more thus reducing the ideas gene pool.
I think this is worth a go. If it breaks down.....hell, we'll try something else - it's no big deal.
Unrelated question. Has anyone heard from Flapjax? Are he and his family ok??
posted by MajorDundee at 12:54 PM on March 22, 2011
1) You must take a turn at the wheel if your idea for the following month is chosen - no refusals or "the dog ate my homework" type excuses acceptable. If you don't want to share the load, don't put any ideas up. Simple.
2) If someone's idea is chosen twice in a row, the person who came up with the incumbent's second choice idea carries the can for the following month even though it's not their idea (heh heh heh, huh??). This avoids the possibility of the same person being caught several times in a row, getting pissed off and not taking part any more thus reducing the ideas gene pool.
I think this is worth a go. If it breaks down.....hell, we'll try something else - it's no big deal.
Unrelated question. Has anyone heard from Flapjax? Are he and his family ok??
posted by MajorDundee at 12:54 PM on March 22, 2011
I understand the concern, Karlos, but what has happened in the version I've been running is that it's been done in a timely fashion because most people are flattered to be chosen and have a pet idea that they like to see done.
True, true. Sounds alright to me, then.
I think unSane's idea is a runner with, perhaps, one rather brutal modification and one fiendish one.
Your mods sound like the meister is picked from a pool of idea submitters, while unSane's plan picks from challenge song submitters, unless I misread. Either way is worth consideration.
Unrelated question. Has anyone heard from Flapjax? Are he and his family ok??
Yeah, he's checked in in a couple of threads -- here, here -- and he even recorded and put up a new song on Facebook.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 3:08 PM on March 22, 2011
True, true. Sounds alright to me, then.
I think unSane's idea is a runner with, perhaps, one rather brutal modification and one fiendish one.
Your mods sound like the meister is picked from a pool of idea submitters, while unSane's plan picks from challenge song submitters, unless I misread. Either way is worth consideration.
Unrelated question. Has anyone heard from Flapjax? Are he and his family ok??
Yeah, he's checked in in a couple of threads -- here, here -- and he even recorded and put up a new song on Facebook.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 3:08 PM on March 22, 2011
Good morning, folks. Leapt out of bed just a few minutes ago, threw on my hardhat (I ain't lying) and made a beeline for the door. Yup, another tremblor, shook the house pretty good. These gaddam aftershocks, man, they'll put the fear of god in ya. But, no need to exit the building this time... so... popped open ye olde laptop, saw that sns had made a new post to music, and found myself mentioned by Dundee: thanks for your concern, Major. I got out of Tokyo for a few days, went down to Kansai, but various commitments (including about 6 gigs scheduled here through the end of the month) made returning to Tokyo necessary. My wife and daughter are still in Kansai, near Kobe, where the ground isn't shaking nearly as often (if at all) and the exploding nuclear power plant is another few hundred kilos away.
And yes, Karlos is right, I've put four new vids up on YT (and linked to a couple of them on FB) over the last few days, with more to come soon. Those days I spent in Kansai were very productive in that regard, got a good bit of stuff documented. I'll probably post something here at MeFiMu later today.
So, sns, you're abdicating, eh? Well, sounds like putting this rotating moderator-ship thing into practice might be a little problematic. Not to rain on the parade, though, if it could happen, and really work, I think it'd be great. Gotta say I'm not all that brimming with confidence about it, though. Sure you don't wanna stay on as Challenge Emperor for, say another few months? Maybe give it enough time to really get some system nailed down and in place, then step down? Just a thought...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:58 PM on March 22, 2011
And yes, Karlos is right, I've put four new vids up on YT (and linked to a couple of them on FB) over the last few days, with more to come soon. Those days I spent in Kansai were very productive in that regard, got a good bit of stuff documented. I'll probably post something here at MeFiMu later today.
So, sns, you're abdicating, eh? Well, sounds like putting this rotating moderator-ship thing into practice might be a little problematic. Not to rain on the parade, though, if it could happen, and really work, I think it'd be great. Gotta say I'm not all that brimming with confidence about it, though. Sure you don't wanna stay on as Challenge Emperor for, say another few months? Maybe give it enough time to really get some system nailed down and in place, then step down? Just a thought...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:58 PM on March 22, 2011
Right on Karlos, and Major, I think your ideas add quite nicely to this thing.
I'm still not sure if I understand the criteria for picking the meister, though. Is it based on submitted challenge ideas or songs? It doesn't matter to me if it's totally arbitrary as long as it's looking like everyone is getting a fair shot. Current guys picks next guy.
That brings me to the Major's fiendish idea which isn't really fiendish at all. If the meister has a 3 or 4 month run I don't see any reason for one of those challenges not be the meister's pet or own idea. Personally I think the rest should come from submitted ideas.
posted by snsranch at 4:02 PM on March 22, 2011
I'm still not sure if I understand the criteria for picking the meister, though. Is it based on submitted challenge ideas or songs? It doesn't matter to me if it's totally arbitrary as long as it's looking like everyone is getting a fair shot. Current guys picks next guy.
That brings me to the Major's fiendish idea which isn't really fiendish at all. If the meister has a 3 or 4 month run I don't see any reason for one of those challenges not be the meister's pet or own idea. Personally I think the rest should come from submitted ideas.
posted by snsranch at 4:02 PM on March 22, 2011
flapjax, I'm STILL very happy that you and your folks are well! For A Little While I Was Free, was awesome. Greatest lyrics, man!
Now, business. I think you're right about this turnover being problematic and I'm not actually in a big hurry to quit. Sometimes, though, I have the attention span of a 3 year old at a birthday part...Oh, there a BALLOON!!!1!!
Seriously though, I won't leave the music challenge high and dry and you're right. Evolutions like this take time. So, thanks man, and I'm glad you've got your hardhat on!
posted by snsranch at 4:59 PM on March 22, 2011
Now, business. I think you're right about this turnover being problematic and I'm not actually in a big hurry to quit. Sometimes, though, I have the attention span of a 3 year old at a birthday part...Oh, there a BALLOON!!!1!!
Seriously though, I won't leave the music challenge high and dry and you're right. Evolutions like this take time. So, thanks man, and I'm glad you've got your hardhat on!
posted by snsranch at 4:59 PM on March 22, 2011
Just to be super clear about my suggested process. Here's an example of it in process.
1. snsranch suggests 'fart music' as the April challenge.
2. everybody submits 'fart music' songs
3. snsranch listens to them all and decides that, for reasons that seem good to him, Major Dundee contributed the most interesting fart.
4. The baton is therefore handed to Major Dundee.
5. Major Dundee chooses the next challenge subject. He chooses "Drinking songs".
6. everybody submits drinking songs
7. Major Dundee decides that, for reasons that seem good to him, Flapjax contributed the most interesting drinking song.
8. The baton is passed to Flapjax
and so on.
I actually agree with Major's modification. The only reason we included a deputising clause was that once in a while you'd find that someone would win but for various reason (illness, for example) wasn't in a position to adjudicate. But yes, don't play if you don't want to win (or if you DO want to play but don't want to win, just make it clear that your entry is not 'in competition', which is also something that people do with some regularity on my forum).
posted by unSane at 8:14 PM on March 22, 2011
1. snsranch suggests 'fart music' as the April challenge.
2. everybody submits 'fart music' songs
3. snsranch listens to them all and decides that, for reasons that seem good to him, Major Dundee contributed the most interesting fart.
4. The baton is therefore handed to Major Dundee.
5. Major Dundee chooses the next challenge subject. He chooses "Drinking songs".
6. everybody submits drinking songs
7. Major Dundee decides that, for reasons that seem good to him, Flapjax contributed the most interesting drinking song.
8. The baton is passed to Flapjax
and so on.
I actually agree with Major's modification. The only reason we included a deputising clause was that once in a while you'd find that someone would win but for various reason (illness, for example) wasn't in a position to adjudicate. But yes, don't play if you don't want to win (or if you DO want to play but don't want to win, just make it clear that your entry is not 'in competition', which is also something that people do with some regularity on my forum).
posted by unSane at 8:14 PM on March 22, 2011
(in other words, the challenge is chosen entirely by that month's meister. S/he can choose from earlier suggestions, or simply pull it out of their ass. It's totally their call).
posted by unSane at 8:15 PM on March 22, 2011
posted by unSane at 8:15 PM on March 22, 2011
Okay, here's my modest proposal.
1) The Meister runs the Monthly Challenges for four months. They can always quit early if they feel like it. They can go on for longer if they feel like it and no one else feels like taking over. They can structure the Monthly Challenges however they like, within the tecnical limitations of the MetaFilter website.
2) The Meister decides how to pick the next Meister. They can make this decision however they like. They can make the process as public or as private as they like.
*dusts off hands*
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 8:15 PM on March 22, 2011
1) The Meister runs the Monthly Challenges for four months. They can always quit early if they feel like it. They can go on for longer if they feel like it and no one else feels like taking over. They can structure the Monthly Challenges however they like, within the tecnical limitations of the MetaFilter website.
2) The Meister decides how to pick the next Meister. They can make this decision however they like. They can make the process as public or as private as they like.
*dusts off hands*
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 8:15 PM on March 22, 2011
My problem with that, Karlos, is that 4 months is more of a commitment than I am willing to make. I'd happily do it for one month, but 4, nah. So I think your proposal, while worthy, reduces the pool of candidates considerably.
posted by unSane at 7:05 AM on March 23, 2011
posted by unSane at 7:05 AM on March 23, 2011
Good point. Four months is totally arbitrary anyway, so we could change
Judging by the activity in this thread, I don't think there will be any issues with a long line of people requesting their chance to run the Monthly Challenges, and that being the case, I don't feel like we need very much structure to the Meister-picking process.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 12:52 PM on March 23, 2011
The Meister runs the Monthly Challenges for four months. They can always quit early if they feel like it. They can go on for longer if they feel like it and no one else feels like taking over.to
The Meister runs the Monthly Challenges for as long as they feel like it.without any problems.
Judging by the activity in this thread, I don't think there will be any issues with a long line of people requesting their chance to run the Monthly Challenges, and that being the case, I don't feel like we need very much structure to the Meister-picking process.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 12:52 PM on March 23, 2011
*dusts off hands*, HA, I like that Karlos and the whole idea, actually. If a problem develops someone can always open a thread for discussion.
I'd like to bring up a couple of minor points. 1. If the meister changes frequently, it'll be difficult to submit challenge ideas. It might be cool to use the wiki or something to list/submit ideas and cross them off or mark them when done.
2. Judging by the activity in this thread... I was actually thinking that it would be a nice courtesy to Memail folks so they can weigh in on this.
Cortex might want to weigh in too. His work load might change a bit.
posted by snsranch at 3:59 PM on March 23, 2011
I'd like to bring up a couple of minor points. 1. If the meister changes frequently, it'll be difficult to submit challenge ideas. It might be cool to use the wiki or something to list/submit ideas and cross them off or mark them when done.
2. Judging by the activity in this thread... I was actually thinking that it would be a nice courtesy to Memail folks so they can weigh in on this.
Cortex might want to weigh in too. His work load might change a bit.
posted by snsranch at 3:59 PM on March 23, 2011
This is a neat idea, I would definitely support giving it a shot. I wish I was more organized and did more of the challenges, but alas. I do have some pet challenge ideas, though...
posted by Corduroy at 4:43 PM on March 23, 2011
posted by Corduroy at 4:43 PM on March 23, 2011
Corduroy, since you have a couple of pet ideas, would you rather another meister post them as a challenge or would you like to use them when YOU are the meister?
I don't have any real concerns but I would really like to see as many folks who want to get their shot. It might be a good idea, just to add to Karlos's outline, for each meister to host/post their own challenge/s for a time and then pass the baton.
(Is that what's already on the table so far?)
posted by snsranch at 5:28 PM on March 23, 2011
I don't have any real concerns but I would really like to see as many folks who want to get their shot. It might be a good idea, just to add to Karlos's outline, for each meister to host/post their own challenge/s for a time and then pass the baton.
(Is that what's already on the table so far?)
posted by snsranch at 5:28 PM on March 23, 2011
It might be a good idea, just to add to Karlos's outline, for each meister to host/post their own challenge/s for a time and then pass the baton.
That leaves out good ideas from people who don't want to run the thing, though. I figured any given Meister would use their own ideas, submitted ideas, classic "encore" ideas, etc., in whatever proportion they feel like.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 10:56 PM on March 23, 2011
That leaves out good ideas from people who don't want to run the thing, though. I figured any given Meister would use their own ideas, submitted ideas, classic "encore" ideas, etc., in whatever proportion they feel like.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 10:56 PM on March 23, 2011
Karlos, WTF! Haha, I must have been distracted by my kids or something. Whatever point I was trying to make is moot anyway. It's not like something bad can happen.
I am curious though about how to submit ideas when, like with unSane, some will only be Meistering for a month. It seems that people might end up submitting and resubmitting ideas to different Meisters until they get used. I dig a little chaos and anarchy, but that sounds like it might be a little frustrating and is similar to your concern about continuity.
Lemme know what you think!
posted by snsranch at 1:47 PM on March 24, 2011
I am curious though about how to submit ideas when, like with unSane, some will only be Meistering for a month. It seems that people might end up submitting and resubmitting ideas to different Meisters until they get used. I dig a little chaos and anarchy, but that sounds like it might be a little frustrating and is similar to your concern about continuity.
Lemme know what you think!
posted by snsranch at 1:47 PM on March 24, 2011
I someone is only going to Meister for a month I assume that it's because they have An Idea and that submissions are therefore unecessary. (I could be wrong.)
Your idea about the wiki is good. It could have an index of completed challenges and a list of proposed ones.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 4:32 PM on March 24, 2011
Your idea about the wiki is good. It could have an index of completed challenges and a list of proposed ones.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 4:32 PM on March 24, 2011
*If* someone... is what I meant.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 5:01 PM on March 24, 2011
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 5:01 PM on March 24, 2011
Easy solution. I'll do it for 3 months and then pick the next meister during my last week of reign from a list of people who volunteer, this person then picks the next meister.
More than 3 objections for a valid reason to the meister choice and that meister is booted and then we have a problem because I didn't think much past me being the challenge meister.
posted by reklus at 9:21 PM on March 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
More than 3 objections for a valid reason to the meister choice and that meister is booted and then we have a problem because I didn't think much past me being the challenge meister.
posted by reklus at 9:21 PM on March 25, 2011 [1 favorite]
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So Any takers/volunteers for Challenge Meister?!
posted by snsranch at 4:03 PM on March 21, 2011