Money? What money?
October 12, 2011 8:39 AM
This could be kind of interesting... check it out.
posted by flapjax at midnite (13 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
posted by flapjax at midnite (13 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
For pretty much all the musicians I know, the answer is "give lots and lots of lessons to ungrateful children". Except Dave the pianist, who supplements that with playing Fairy Bells for ballet classes.
On the whole, therefore, the main income for underpaid musicians is bringing the next generation of underpaid musicians into the world.
posted by Grangousier at 4:00 PM on October 12, 2011
On the whole, therefore, the main income for underpaid musicians is bringing the next generation of underpaid musicians into the world.
posted by Grangousier at 4:00 PM on October 12, 2011
I know a few musicians who make most of a living out of it - it being music... basically playing covers, tribute bands, running jam nights, running a recording studio and doing live sound. One guy I know has a cable show. Most supplement their income with other stuff ... house painting, trading guitars on eBay and so on. It's definitely a tough gig, though.
I even have one friend who had a day job singing for Carlsberg. I've never really figured out how that worked.
The one thing that *nobody* seems to do is play originals.
posted by unSane at 4:45 PM on October 12, 2011
I even have one friend who had a day job singing for Carlsberg. I've never really figured out how that worked.
The one thing that *nobody* seems to do is play originals.
posted by unSane at 4:45 PM on October 12, 2011
The one thing that *nobody* seems to do is play originals.
That rings true. Back in the day, for me (and many others) being a "professional" musician in the UK doing your own material meant essentially being on the dole, living in a squat and supplementing income from various casual sources (working in supermarkets, music shops, record shops etc). I never made any significant cash from music, but then I wasn't in it for that. For me, having to play covers or teach cloth-eared wannabes or do cruise ships etc was and remains completely beyond the pale. I can't personally - and it is a very personal thing - see any point at all in doing anything other than original material. My solution has been to develop a career outside of music that means I can do what the hell I like musically because I don't have to feed my kids out of it.
Also strikes me that most musicians don't make all or even a siginificant portion of their income directly from playing. And it's always been like that. The number of people who can make what I'd consider to be a good living solely from music must be and always have been staggeringly small - probably less than 1% of everyone who would categorise themselves as musicians first and foremost (I have no evidence to support that rather rash assertion, btw!) In other words, it's probably statistically insignificant. Which kind of leads to the conclusion that, whether we like it or not, most of us are amateurs....
posted by MajorDundee at 1:41 AM on October 13, 2011
That rings true. Back in the day, for me (and many others) being a "professional" musician in the UK doing your own material meant essentially being on the dole, living in a squat and supplementing income from various casual sources (working in supermarkets, music shops, record shops etc). I never made any significant cash from music, but then I wasn't in it for that. For me, having to play covers or teach cloth-eared wannabes or do cruise ships etc was and remains completely beyond the pale. I can't personally - and it is a very personal thing - see any point at all in doing anything other than original material. My solution has been to develop a career outside of music that means I can do what the hell I like musically because I don't have to feed my kids out of it.
Also strikes me that most musicians don't make all or even a siginificant portion of their income directly from playing. And it's always been like that. The number of people who can make what I'd consider to be a good living solely from music must be and always have been staggeringly small - probably less than 1% of everyone who would categorise themselves as musicians first and foremost (I have no evidence to support that rather rash assertion, btw!) In other words, it's probably statistically insignificant. Which kind of leads to the conclusion that, whether we like it or not, most of us are amateurs....
posted by MajorDundee at 1:41 AM on October 13, 2011
Which kind of leads to the conclusion that, whether we like it or not, most of us are amateurs....
When people ask me if I'm a professional musician, I tell them the same thing I've been telling them for decades: I'm a semi-pro. For the past 30 years or so I've earned roughly 1/2 my income through music, and the other 1/2 through all manner of part time jobs. The story of my life.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:59 AM on October 13, 2011
When people ask me if I'm a professional musician, I tell them the same thing I've been telling them for decades: I'm a semi-pro. For the past 30 years or so I've earned roughly 1/2 my income through music, and the other 1/2 through all manner of part time jobs. The story of my life.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:59 AM on October 13, 2011
Also strikes me that most musicians don't make all or even a siginificant portion of their income directly from playing.
I'd say of the people I've played with, roughly half didn't work non-music jobs, and for probably half of those with day gigs about half of them had done the full time thing at one point or another.
The interesting thing to me is that almost all of the full time musicians played either jazz, classical, or (and this is the biggest chunk) both. They almost all do other stuff too, but the majority of their income comes from those two genres. Which considering what a small market share they have as far as listeners go is... odd.
As far as making a living doing originals is concerned, jazz is it's own thing. My combo plays roughly 1/4 originals (and this seems pretty consistent with the other groups I've played with), but if anyone called us a cover band they'd probably get a blank stare. Not that the jazz culture is any better or worse, but when you're talking the culture of and pay for jazz musicians, you're talking a completely different sort of thing than other genres.
Which is probably why jazz musicians in particular were singled out by the study. We live halfway between the worlds of pop and art music (I see things sliding more and more towards the second). On the one hand, I studied years to play jazz; the technical demands are high, the theory is complex, and to be considered "competent" you have to have both well underhand. On the other, how many classical ensembles do you know that play bars?
posted by Gygesringtone at 10:05 AM on October 13, 2011
I'd say of the people I've played with, roughly half didn't work non-music jobs, and for probably half of those with day gigs about half of them had done the full time thing at one point or another.
The interesting thing to me is that almost all of the full time musicians played either jazz, classical, or (and this is the biggest chunk) both. They almost all do other stuff too, but the majority of their income comes from those two genres. Which considering what a small market share they have as far as listeners go is... odd.
As far as making a living doing originals is concerned, jazz is it's own thing. My combo plays roughly 1/4 originals (and this seems pretty consistent with the other groups I've played with), but if anyone called us a cover band they'd probably get a blank stare. Not that the jazz culture is any better or worse, but when you're talking the culture of and pay for jazz musicians, you're talking a completely different sort of thing than other genres.
Which is probably why jazz musicians in particular were singled out by the study. We live halfway between the worlds of pop and art music (I see things sliding more and more towards the second). On the one hand, I studied years to play jazz; the technical demands are high, the theory is complex, and to be considered "competent" you have to have both well underhand. On the other, how many classical ensembles do you know that play bars?
posted by Gygesringtone at 10:05 AM on October 13, 2011
For the past 30 years or so I've earned roughly 1/2 my income through music, and the other 1/2 through all manner of part time jobs. The story of my life.
You always strike me as a very together, contented sort of guy flapjax (not in a complacent way, I hasten to add) - so it's worked out ok for you and long may you continue.
posted by MajorDundee at 11:22 AM on October 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
You always strike me as a very together, contented sort of guy flapjax (not in a complacent way, I hasten to add) - so it's worked out ok for you and long may you continue.
posted by MajorDundee at 11:22 AM on October 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
From my perspective it comes down to what you want and how much you're willing to give up. Over the years I've seen maybe five bands climb their way out of San Diego, thus giving up day jobs and actually becoming "pro". Their common denominator is that they all gave up everything but music.
No home except for Mom's on maybe Thanksgiving or Christmas. Living out of a van and flea-bag motels. Going to hundreds of shows that suck so that you can meet so-and-so who's going to help book your next gig. Becoming "close friends" with scum-bag promoters and radio people. No girlfriend or any real intimate contact because everything you do is about making connections and self promoting. Using drugs so that you can fit into certain parties with influential guests. ODing because someone offered you some pot but it was actually sherm...horse tranquilizer soaked pot. Etc. and add you own anecdote, I know I'm preaching to the choir!
While I may sound kind of jaded, those are not tales of my own woe. However, if I was 19 again, I'd play enough shows to afford hiring a PR guy or gal and then an agent.
Something silly now, I've always dreamed of having a recording studio or session house in the inner city, so that I could coach kids and help them on their way. Considering what's been going on with corporate music in the last few years it's really starting to sound like a good idea. Build music scenes locally. Build venues, take it all back and bring it home.
posted by snsranch at 5:58 PM on October 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
No home except for Mom's on maybe Thanksgiving or Christmas. Living out of a van and flea-bag motels. Going to hundreds of shows that suck so that you can meet so-and-so who's going to help book your next gig. Becoming "close friends" with scum-bag promoters and radio people. No girlfriend or any real intimate contact because everything you do is about making connections and self promoting. Using drugs so that you can fit into certain parties with influential guests. ODing because someone offered you some pot but it was actually sherm...horse tranquilizer soaked pot. Etc. and add you own anecdote, I know I'm preaching to the choir!
While I may sound kind of jaded, those are not tales of my own woe. However, if I was 19 again, I'd play enough shows to afford hiring a PR guy or gal and then an agent.
Something silly now, I've always dreamed of having a recording studio or session house in the inner city, so that I could coach kids and help them on their way. Considering what's been going on with corporate music in the last few years it's really starting to sound like a good idea. Build music scenes locally. Build venues, take it all back and bring it home.
posted by snsranch at 5:58 PM on October 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
This is why I work in IT. I pull a more-than-decent salary which allows me to buy gear occasionally and I get to play gigs from time to time. Would I rather be a full time musician? You bet yer sweet ass I would...if I could be assured of making at least $60k/year doing it.
I got mouths to feed.
posted by Doleful Creature at 9:01 AM on October 14, 2011
I got mouths to feed.
posted by Doleful Creature at 9:01 AM on October 14, 2011
Hmm, I know quite a few successful muso types actually who seem to make 90% of their income from Music and related activities. they don't seem to have any day-jobs, and seem to be making a reasonable salary.
Particularly, a few people in mid-level mainstream successful bands that make their money from the following:
- playing gigs / festival circuits around the world
- album and Merch sales
- licensing fees from Synchronisation for Adverts / movies.
these are all playing their own songs. not cover bands
posted by mary8nne at 6:00 AM on October 18, 2011
Particularly, a few people in mid-level mainstream successful bands that make their money from the following:
- playing gigs / festival circuits around the world
- album and Merch sales
- licensing fees from Synchronisation for Adverts / movies.
these are all playing their own songs. not cover bands
posted by mary8nne at 6:00 AM on October 18, 2011
Actually I think Licensing is where most muso's can make their money now. If you can license a few songs to say 4-5 advertisements per year. and play a few gigs - you'd probably be doing ok.
posted by mary8nne at 6:02 AM on October 18, 2011
posted by mary8nne at 6:02 AM on October 18, 2011
I know a bunch of guys that make most of their income via music. The things they have in common are:
- They have simple tastes, lifestyles and pleasures and they have never gone into debt for any reason.
- They continuously play and perform music, many for nearly 2 decades now.
- All do original music, though they add cover songs depending on where they play.
- They all have lots of irons in the fire musically with multiple projects, collaborating with each other as well as pretty much anybody that is not a flake.
- They never stopped to go back to school or to have a "day job"; any jobs they've had that aren't directly music related are at venues (door men, bookers, promters, etc).
- They almost all have received generous grants from the Canadian government at some point.
- They carry themselves with self confidence and dignity and clearly define what they will not do to make money via music.
- They are generally nice people that you would like to hang out with.
posted by dobie at 3:44 PM on October 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
- They have simple tastes, lifestyles and pleasures and they have never gone into debt for any reason.
- They continuously play and perform music, many for nearly 2 decades now.
- All do original music, though they add cover songs depending on where they play.
- They all have lots of irons in the fire musically with multiple projects, collaborating with each other as well as pretty much anybody that is not a flake.
- They never stopped to go back to school or to have a "day job"; any jobs they've had that aren't directly music related are at venues (door men, bookers, promters, etc).
- They almost all have received generous grants from the Canadian government at some point.
- They carry themselves with self confidence and dignity and clearly define what they will not do to make money via music.
- They are generally nice people that you would like to hang out with.
posted by dobie at 3:44 PM on October 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
The older I get the more I'm noticing is that of my musician friends, the constant theme among the ones who at least seem to be doing better - by which I mean head-above-water better - is that they aren't the best musicians necessarily, but they're the reliable ones with the positive attitude. It's really easy to be a flake, and it's really easy to get bitter, and either or both of those things can completely nullify even the greatest talent.
posted by motty at 8:49 PM on October 24, 2011
posted by motty at 8:49 PM on October 24, 2011
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Mine's more "This is Murph and the Magic Tones... don't you go changing" and much less "We would especially like to welcome all the representatives of Illinios' law enforcement community who have chosen to join us here at the Place Hotel Ballroom at this time."
Also: Weddings.
posted by Gygesringtone at 1:54 PM on October 12, 2011