Surprisingly, I'm really bummed out with his passing...A Michael Jackson post for Music Talk..
June 27, 2009 5:12 PM
How did Michael Jackson effect your life and music?
Prior to his huge break with the album Off the Wall in '79, I lived in a very non-whitey 'hood and couldn't even shoot hoops with the local kids. (Because I was white, and therefore couldn't possibly shoot friggin' hoops.)
For me, MJ created a bridge. A bridge from the '70s into the future. He made music that transcended class, culture and race. By '83 it wasn't a big deal for me to be shooting hoops with the "bros", and the song banging out from a giant Sony boombox was Don't Stop 'Til you Get Enough.
As MJ was hitting his stride with Thriller, I was hitting my stride too, as a young man. Human Nature played in the background during my very first embrace with a beautiful girl.
posted by snsranch (29 comments total)
1 user marked this as a favorite
Prior to his huge break with the album Off the Wall in '79, I lived in a very non-whitey 'hood and couldn't even shoot hoops with the local kids. (Because I was white, and therefore couldn't possibly shoot friggin' hoops.)
For me, MJ created a bridge. A bridge from the '70s into the future. He made music that transcended class, culture and race. By '83 it wasn't a big deal for me to be shooting hoops with the "bros", and the song banging out from a giant Sony boombox was Don't Stop 'Til you Get Enough.
As MJ was hitting his stride with Thriller, I was hitting my stride too, as a young man. Human Nature played in the background during my very first embrace with a beautiful girl.
Billie Jean was one of the songs every party bands (including my dad's) played when I was little. Captain EO was an experience at age 8 or so for me. In my formative years and beyond he never really interested me... but I still grew up with his music and image all over the place.
I went to a producer/engineer panel discussion for the Grammy's featuring John Nevison (The Who, Led Zepplin), Mike Clint (GNR, Mötley Crüe), and Keith Olsen (Fleetwood Mac, Greatful Dead) on the day of his death not hours after it was announced. Not a mention or whisper of it during the event.
Although it was an illuminating experience the theme of shiftless profiting off of the artist was still abundantly clear without even a pretense to hide it. MJ was surely a mechanism of this business and it most likely led to most of his hardships. The impending death of the music industry is truly something I can anticipate with hope.
posted by dagosto at 1:33 AM on June 28, 2009
I went to a producer/engineer panel discussion for the Grammy's featuring John Nevison (The Who, Led Zepplin), Mike Clint (GNR, Mötley Crüe), and Keith Olsen (Fleetwood Mac, Greatful Dead) on the day of his death not hours after it was announced. Not a mention or whisper of it during the event.
Although it was an illuminating experience the theme of shiftless profiting off of the artist was still abundantly clear without even a pretense to hide it. MJ was surely a mechanism of this business and it most likely led to most of his hardships. The impending death of the music industry is truly something I can anticipate with hope.
posted by dagosto at 1:33 AM on June 28, 2009
But I suppose there will be a lot of MJ tribute stuff over the next twelve months.
This most assuredly will be an unofficial challenge. I can already feel myself going through my first Michael Jackson phase.
I only knew the punchline Michael Jackson. And that at his big trial (or one of them?), there was a girl with a cage full of doves. As each acquittal was being read, she joyfully released a dove into the world. Not an easy level to reach for your fan base, for sure.
posted by Corduroy at 1:41 AM on June 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
This most assuredly will be an unofficial challenge. I can already feel myself going through my first Michael Jackson phase.
I only knew the punchline Michael Jackson. And that at his big trial (or one of them?), there was a girl with a cage full of doves. As each acquittal was being read, she joyfully released a dove into the world. Not an easy level to reach for your fan base, for sure.
posted by Corduroy at 1:41 AM on June 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
...but the whole production is so goddam tight that I can hardly bitch.
Two words: Quincy Jones.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 1:53 AM on June 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
Two words: Quincy Jones.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 1:53 AM on June 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
Me too. I listened to a couple of his albums Friday night (in between watching Glastonbury on TV) and felt genuine sadness. MJ wasn't in my "top ten", but there were certain tracks that simply blew me away. On "Off The Wall" there is a cover of Stevie Wonder's "I Can't Help It" that is really quite sublime - I love that track. And the arpeggio parts of "Human Nature" never fail to send shivers down my spine. Flapjax is right to say "two words: Quincy Jones" - the production on these albums is to die for - sounds weird, but there's a three-dimensionality to them, you feel like you can almost dive in and swim around. Listen to the little percussion fills at the start of "I Can't Help it" - like little golden drops of honey. And then a synth just gracefully climbs heavenward, and the track takes off. Truly beautiful. As to MJ's pre-Quincy stuff check out "Looking Through The Windows" from the early '70s Motown period - it really kicks ass, great production of a really good song. RIP MJ - you're better off out of it. Justs shows what the music business does to those who haven't got an alligator skin. It's truly fucking horrible. I'm glad I got out when I did - I'd have been in a box years ago otherwise.
posted by MajorDundee at 3:01 PM on June 28, 2009
posted by MajorDundee at 3:01 PM on June 28, 2009
But I suppose there will be a lot of MJ tribute stuff over the next twelve months.
Absolutely. I'm piecing together an ethereal, ambient-ish cover of Smooth Criminal, as we speak.
posted by askmeaboutLOOM at 9:56 PM on June 28, 2009
Absolutely. I'm piecing together an ethereal, ambient-ish cover of Smooth Criminal, as we speak.
posted by askmeaboutLOOM at 9:56 PM on June 28, 2009
Yeah, I think July will be the unofficial month of MJ covers. RIP
posted by dagosto at 10:36 PM on June 28, 2009
posted by dagosto at 10:36 PM on June 28, 2009
I'm piecing together an ethereal, ambient-ish cover of Smooth Criminal, as we speak.
Yeah, I think July will be the unofficial month of MJ covers.
Hmm... I've got a list set to unveil tomorrow, said list being Velvet Underground and Nico cover song assignments for the July MeFiMu Challenge. BUT, given the unexpected nature of recent events... quick last-minute question to throw out:
SHOULD JULY IT BE MJ COVERS INSTEAD? That is, officially? And leave VU & N for August?
Your humble MeFiMu Challenge Coordinator would love to hear your opinions on this. And pronto.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 1:33 AM on June 29, 2009
Yeah, I think July will be the unofficial month of MJ covers.
Hmm... I've got a list set to unveil tomorrow, said list being Velvet Underground and Nico cover song assignments for the July MeFiMu Challenge. BUT, given the unexpected nature of recent events... quick last-minute question to throw out:
SHOULD JULY IT BE MJ COVERS INSTEAD? That is, officially? And leave VU & N for August?
Your humble MeFiMu Challenge Coordinator would love to hear your opinions on this. And pronto.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 1:33 AM on June 29, 2009
No, let's power on ahead. MJ will still be dead in another month.
posted by cortex at 6:43 AM on June 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by cortex at 6:43 AM on June 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
I almost did one the night he died but I was so tired. Now I don't know if I will because I'm getting Jackson fatigue already.
posted by chococat at 6:52 AM on June 29, 2009
posted by chococat at 6:52 AM on June 29, 2009
why not velvet underground & nico covers in the style of Motown Jackson 5, Quincy Jones, or Teddy Riley? 2 birds with 1 stone?
posted by mexican at 7:42 AM on June 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by mexican at 7:42 AM on June 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
No, let's power on ahead. MJ will still be dead in another month.
posted by cortex
Careful with the predictions, the first time I heard a phrase like this was "MJ will still be black in another month"
posted by micayetoca at 9:39 AM on June 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by cortex
Careful with the predictions, the first time I heard a phrase like this was "MJ will still be black in another month"
posted by micayetoca at 9:39 AM on June 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
Agree with cortex. Can't really see myself getting up for MJ covers. In a macabre twist, I guess we could broaden it out at some point and have a month of DRS covers (Dead Rock Stars). Morrison, Hendrix, etc etc. Naturally, we will approach Stiff Records to see if they're interested in releasing the results (cue Vincent Price-style reverb-drenched cackle)
posted by MajorDundee at 1:51 PM on June 29, 2009
posted by MajorDundee at 1:51 PM on June 29, 2009
Can't really see myself getting up for MJ covers.
Speaking personally, neither can I. Just thought I'd bring it up, though, since it was mentioned a coupla times. For all I knew, there was a groundswell of interest suddenly brewing among MeFi Musicers to do MJ covers, and if so, I'd be happy to help that along and make it an Official Challenge, even though I personally have little to no interest in any of MJ's music after, say, "I Want You Back". And I certainly wouldn't touch (as a cover) any of that Motown Jackson 5 stuff with a 10 foot pole, unless I could a) trade my voice in for another, and b) raise James Jamerson (and that Motown tambourine player) from the dead. Otherwise, there'd be no point.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:29 PM on June 29, 2009
Speaking personally, neither can I. Just thought I'd bring it up, though, since it was mentioned a coupla times. For all I knew, there was a groundswell of interest suddenly brewing among MeFi Musicers to do MJ covers, and if so, I'd be happy to help that along and make it an Official Challenge, even though I personally have little to no interest in any of MJ's music after, say, "I Want You Back". And I certainly wouldn't touch (as a cover) any of that Motown Jackson 5 stuff with a 10 foot pole, unless I could a) trade my voice in for another, and b) raise James Jamerson (and that Motown tambourine player) from the dead. Otherwise, there'd be no point.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:29 PM on June 29, 2009
Hey, thanks for the great thread of comments!
That's exactly why I posted this. I hoped to read some intelligent commentary on the subject and be done with it.
Forgive me for saying this, but ultimately, from what I understand and from reading your comments, the MJ phenomenon, was really as much a managerie as his "Neverland" was.
cortex; plenty to knock (really, "the doggone girl is mine"?)
flapjax; Two words: Quincy Jones.
MajorDundee; Justs shows what the music business does to those who haven't got an alligator skin.
MJ influenced me more in a cultural way than a musical one. You can laugh if you want, but prior to my being inundated by MJ on the radio (which opened my eyes and ears), I really thought that the Doobie Brothers and Chicago were "black" guys. Yep.
posted by snsranch at 6:00 PM on June 29, 2009
That's exactly why I posted this. I hoped to read some intelligent commentary on the subject and be done with it.
Forgive me for saying this, but ultimately, from what I understand and from reading your comments, the MJ phenomenon, was really as much a managerie as his "Neverland" was.
cortex; plenty to knock (really, "the doggone girl is mine"?)
flapjax; Two words: Quincy Jones.
MajorDundee; Justs shows what the music business does to those who haven't got an alligator skin.
MJ influenced me more in a cultural way than a musical one. You can laugh if you want, but prior to my being inundated by MJ on the radio (which opened my eyes and ears), I really thought that the Doobie Brothers and Chicago were "black" guys. Yep.
posted by snsranch at 6:00 PM on June 29, 2009
I really thought that the Doobie Brothers and Chicago were "black" guys.
Haha! Well, the Doobs, they did have that one black guy... They must've been kinda bummed, though, when George Clinton put this in a P.Funk song:
"Well, allright! Hey I was diggin' on y'all's funk for awhile.
Sounds like it got a three on it though, to me.
Then I was down south and I heard some funk with some main ingredients,
Like Doobie Brothers, Blue Magic, David Bowie...
It was cool...
But can you imagine doobie in your funk? Ho!"
-The Bomb
Hey, you know, let's stop by and hear George & Co., in fine form here circa 1976.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:27 PM on June 29, 2009
Haha! Well, the Doobs, they did have that one black guy... They must've been kinda bummed, though, when George Clinton put this in a P.Funk song:
"Well, allright! Hey I was diggin' on y'all's funk for awhile.
Sounds like it got a three on it though, to me.
Then I was down south and I heard some funk with some main ingredients,
Like Doobie Brothers, Blue Magic, David Bowie...
It was cool...
But can you imagine doobie in your funk? Ho!"
-The Bomb
Hey, you know, let's stop by and hear George & Co., in fine form here circa 1976.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:27 PM on June 29, 2009
flapjax, hell yea, and exactly! Coming from some really white-bread stuff (really white upbringing, heh, I was just a stupid kid.)...I did end up kicken' with (not literally) the likes of George & Co, James Brown, and eventually Coltrane and Miles Davis.
posted by snsranch at 8:28 PM on June 29, 2009
posted by snsranch at 8:28 PM on June 29, 2009
Ahhh The Doobies. As I kid growing up in rain-swept Glasgow (Scotland), The Doobies were my band. I adored them - I wore The Captain And Me out and learned all the songs. Did the same with Toulouse Street and What Were Once Vices. All my friends were into crap like Deep Purple and Uriah Heep (lumpen Brit "heavy rock" bands - I hated them) but the sunshine of California was a world away and utterly, beguilingly cool. Still love 'em, I'm not ashamed to say. Oh, and the black bass player was Mr Tiran Porter. An excellent bassist with a lovely melodic gift (check out his lines on "Natural Thing").
posted by MajorDundee at 2:43 PM on June 30, 2009
posted by MajorDundee at 2:43 PM on June 30, 2009
I hear you Dundee, I'll take the Doobies over Deep Purple and Uriah Heep just about any old day of the week.
I tell ya, though, their percussionist lost all credibility when he played the congas with big fat mallets in this clip... Part of the reason, I'd say, that Long Train Running and other tunes of theirs were, unfortunately, more leaden in the 'feel' department than they should've been. George Clinton was right: their funk had a three in it. I've always wanted to like the Doobies more than I do.
Doobie doobie dooo...
hey, who let Sinatra in here?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:28 PM on June 30, 2009
I tell ya, though, their percussionist lost all credibility when he played the congas with big fat mallets in this clip... Part of the reason, I'd say, that Long Train Running and other tunes of theirs were, unfortunately, more leaden in the 'feel' department than they should've been. George Clinton was right: their funk had a three in it. I've always wanted to like the Doobies more than I do.
Doobie doobie dooo...
hey, who let Sinatra in here?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:28 PM on June 30, 2009
Flapjax - I love that "their funk had a three in it" - never heard that before and it's a brilliant way of describing cack-handed funk. Made me laugh out loud! But, hey, can't agree re the Doobies my friend. They weren't an out-and-out funk band, so it's an unfair comparison. Bet they would have agreed with that. Shit......we're back on the artifically flavoured jazz-lite riff.........
Idea - we should post some musicians jokes on here. Here's a couple of golden oldies for starters:
Q. What the difference between the James Last Orchestra and a bull?
A. The bull has the horns at the front and the arsehole at the back.
Q. What do you call a guy who hangs around with musicians
A. A bass player.
posted by MajorDundee at 1:04 PM on July 1, 2009
Idea - we should post some musicians jokes on here. Here's a couple of golden oldies for starters:
Q. What the difference between the James Last Orchestra and a bull?
A. The bull has the horns at the front and the arsehole at the back.
Q. What do you call a guy who hangs around with musicians
A. A bass player.
posted by MajorDundee at 1:04 PM on July 1, 2009
How do you know if the drum riser is level?
Drummer drools out of both sides of his mouth.
How do you get an electric guitarist to turn down?
Put some music in front of him.
sorry, those are both ancient and I'm sure everybody's heard 'em already...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:30 PM on July 1, 2009
Drummer drools out of both sides of his mouth.
How do you get an electric guitarist to turn down?
Put some music in front of him.
sorry, those are both ancient and I'm sure everybody's heard 'em already...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:30 PM on July 1, 2009
Yea! All oldies but goodies!
How do you get an electric guitarist to turn down?
Ha, that one ALWAYS shuts ME up!
Good show you two. Now;
Q: How can you tell if flapjax and MajorDundee are full of shit?
A: You don't, they're ALWAYS full of shit!!!
Hardy har har!!!!
posted by snsranch at 7:45 PM on July 1, 2009
How do you get an electric guitarist to turn down?
Ha, that one ALWAYS shuts ME up!
Good show you two. Now;
Q: How can you tell if flapjax and MajorDundee are full of shit?
A: You don't, they're ALWAYS full of shit!!!
Hardy har har!!!!
posted by snsranch at 7:45 PM on July 1, 2009
(I was just kidding...don't punch me in the arm or anything!)
posted by snsranch at 8:17 PM on July 1, 2009
posted by snsranch at 8:17 PM on July 1, 2009
We promise not to punch you in the arm snsranch. Primarily because when we've finished with you you will be minus all appendiges. Bit like kids pulling the legs off a spider - huh Flapjax? As an officer and a gentleman, I naturally offer you first go.
posted by MajorDundee at 1:12 AM on July 2, 2009
posted by MajorDundee at 1:12 AM on July 2, 2009
Flapjax, I was getting all ready to defend the guy guy playing congas with mallets - more than one way to do it and all - but man what an awful sound. So I'll fall back to plan B where I say "I saw 2 drummers in the video but you'll have to point out the percussionist for me."
posted by mexican at 2:51 AM on July 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by mexican at 2:51 AM on July 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
...more than one way to do it and all ...
I hear you, mexican, and I'm ordinarily not some sort of rigid dogmatist on playing techniques. Far from it actually, but as you discovered... awful sound. As far as plan B... the percussionist played the congas. With mallets.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:42 AM on July 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
I hear you, mexican, and I'm ordinarily not some sort of rigid dogmatist on playing techniques. Far from it actually, but as you discovered... awful sound. As far as plan B... the percussionist played the congas. With mallets.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:42 AM on July 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
q. what's the definition of a minor 2nd?
a. two piccolos playing in unison
q. what's the difference between a saxophone and a lawnmower
a. the lawnmower has vibrato
q. how can you tell which kid on the playground is destined to be a trombonist?
a. the one who likes to play on the slide, but can't swing
and, somewhat apologetically:
q. how does michael jackson pick his nose?
a. from a catalogue
anyway, I'm not ashamed to say that I loved michael jackson, and he influenced the way I make music, and even the way I dance (I can't dance...), in ways both overt and sublime. expect a cover of "I Want You Back" next week sometime.
posted by Jon_Evil at 11:17 PM on July 2, 2009
a. two piccolos playing in unison
q. what's the difference between a saxophone and a lawnmower
a. the lawnmower has vibrato
q. how can you tell which kid on the playground is destined to be a trombonist?
a. the one who likes to play on the slide, but can't swing
and, somewhat apologetically:
q. how does michael jackson pick his nose?
a. from a catalogue
anyway, I'm not ashamed to say that I loved michael jackson, and he influenced the way I make music, and even the way I dance (I can't dance...), in ways both overt and sublime. expect a cover of "I Want You Back" next week sometime.
posted by Jon_Evil at 11:17 PM on July 2, 2009
Shame it all went so very wrong. Dodgy lyrics aside I do think the man - as a performer - was pretty astonishing pre-1990. I just saw some concert footage from the Bad tour and it was jaw-dropping stuff. I'd be up for a cover.
Although, Dead Rocks Stars is a genius challenge. Either way...
posted by freya_lamb at 1:18 PM on July 4, 2009
Although, Dead Rocks Stars is a genius challenge. Either way...
posted by freya_lamb at 1:18 PM on July 4, 2009
Oh! I almost forgot!
q. what has seven arms and sucks?
a. def leppard
posted by Jon_Evil at 9:32 PM on July 5, 2009
q. what has seven arms and sucks?
a. def leppard
posted by Jon_Evil at 9:32 PM on July 5, 2009
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His lyrics are just pop, competent enough but nothing really stunning about most of them and certainly plenty to knock (really, "the doggone girl is mine"?, though how much of that is McCartney I can't say), but the whole production is so goddam tight that I can hardly bitch. Compared to the Richard Marx and Mariah Carey bullshit I cut my teeth on, there's nothing bad to say about early-80s Jackson.
One of these days I'm going to end up covering Billie Jean. I didn't particularly care for the Chris Cornell cover of it that got linked in the obit thread on the blue—it felt like cardboard-cutout Chris Cornell Has A Slow, Middling Wank type stuff to me—and I'd hope that once I get around it it'll be a bit more spirited and fun than that.
But I suppose there will be a lot of MJ tribute stuff over the next twelve months.
posted by cortex at 10:30 PM on June 27, 2009 [1 favorite]