Help a newbie out?

Longtime piano player, finally getting started with Garageband, hoping to move up eventually but for now it's what I've got. Looking for tips/sites/books whatever to learn how to better make a song sound "finished."

I know all the basics of the program - I went through the training series about it on Lynda.com - but what's still missing for me is an understanding of things like effects, compressors, EQ - the things you need to know to give a recording more of a finished/polished/professional sound. (The Lynda.com series sort of introduced them and then said "just play around with them." Uh.)

I need something - maybe a book, maybe a website - that's pretty non-jargony (really, there's a lot of lingo in the recording world that just makes my eyes glaze over and my brain shut down) - something that can help me understand "if your track sounds like X, and you want it to sound more like X+Y, add "Chorus" and adjust the slider thusly..."

(Extra background - been playing piano and writing music on/off since I was a kid, though I quit actual lessons in it after only a couple years when the structure of them bored me. Then I started hearing stuff like George Winston, and got some old school jazz "fake book" tips from another teacher and have managed some good "playing by ear" training on my own since. Trying to finally get serious with it all. Made a first rough MP3 the other day, a solo piano piece, to send to a friend as a test. It was while trying to clean up the sound of it that I got a little frustrated. It's not bad, just not great either. )

(Oh, and if it helps to know what I'm hoping to sound like eventually, I'd say Matt Alber.)

posted by dnash (19 comments total)

I woudl hazard a guess that its difficult to get really really polished results from Garage band alone. - Ie you might want to compose in Garageband and then say export and Mix in say Reaper (which is free).

For tips on Mixing and use of EQ Compression delays reverb etc. I'd recommend reading some of the production technical articles on SoundonSound.co.uk

Or I recently bought this book:

http://www.mixingwithyourmind.com/

which I did find was not a bad introduction to Mixing techniques
posted by mary8nne at 4:12 AM on February 18, 2010

HHHmmmmmm that's a tough one. Sadly, the advice to "just play around with them" isn't too far of the mark (although it is a little blunt).

I think the most useful start point is to find out what these things actually do and/or what they sound like. You won't find any "recipes" - a pinch of compression + a smidgin of chorus will result in a perfect souffle kind of thing - because there are just so many critical variables and dependencies involved in what goes to make a good record. The mics you use, the type of recording equipment, the sound of the room, the quality of your instruments and so on and so forth - and that's before you get anywhere near effects and processors! And also if you want to play improvised or semi-improvised music, you need a distinctive "voice" - so you don't want to use precisely the same settings/effects as every other dude - do you?

Best advice I can give is - use your ears rather than books. And be patient - you'll need to experiment and be prepared to fuck up a lot before you find what works for you. It's taken me more than 10 years to get where I can produce something presentable (technically - not in terms of the material, which still sucks more than blows), and there have been mucho tears and hand-wringing along the way. Worth it though!
posted by MajorDundee at 7:14 AM on February 18, 2010

something that can help me understand "if your track sounds like X, and you want it to sound more like X+Y, add "Chorus" and adjust the slider thusly..."

I don't know of any good resources specifically for this (I've pretty much bumbled through becoming a recordist blindly by fiddling with stuff, too), but there've got to be some out there.

I've thought more than once that someone should put together a nice two-page cribsheet of common uses for common tools that would actually cover some of this stuff, actually. It would I think make a really useful starting point for folks in your position just starting seriously into trying to work with the embarrassment of riches that is modern recording software and hardware. Maybe something that as Music denizens could have a wiki stab at. Hmm.

Made a first rough MP3 the other day, a solo piano piece, to send to a friend as a test. It was while trying to clean up the sound of it that I got a little frustrated. It's not bad, just not great either.

Would you be willing to link to it and give us a quick description of how you made the recording? As far as some of the very basics of getting a minimal solid recording, that might be a nice jumpstart on the process.

I woudl hazard a guess that its difficult to get really really polished results from Garage band alone.

Well, it's definitely an underpowered, underfeatured DAW and there are lots of more robust alternatives out there, but it'll do for starting out certainly and can produce pretty solid results if you make an effort. Despite my frustrations with the program I've stuck with it for a couple years now and it's very, very rare that a problem with a recording is something I can fundamentally blame on Garageband rather than myself.
posted by cortex at 7:22 AM on February 18, 2010

Thanks, folks. I know there's going to be a lot of "you just have to experiment and listen," I guess I'm just looking for as many resources as I can find that might help shorten than process at least a little bit.


Ie you might want to compose in Garageband and then say export and Mix in say Reaper (which is free).

See, I look at a screenshot of Reaper and my brain freezes. All those sliders and buttons and whatsits. I hardly know where to start with a program like that, and it just increases the frustration.

Garageband is limited, I know that. I'm accepting that, but I'm looking at it like how I learned photography originally with an all-manual Pentax K1000 and a single 50mm lens. It's a limiting set up, but by working to master all that it can do, I'll learn about the things I wish it could do, which I'll then better understand when moving into some more complex program.

I've thought more than once that someone should put together a nice two-page cribsheet of common uses for common tools that would actually cover some of this stuff, actually.

Yeah, see, even some sort of glossary of terms would probably help me.

I saw a video demo a couple weeks ago, one of those "here's how easy it is to make a new song in Reason." The demo blithely barreled through things like "we'll just add this oscillator and run it through this plug in and boost this over here and..." Sure it all came out sounding great, but even if I could hear in my head "I want something that sounds like this," I wouldn't have a clue how to pick and choose which of all those options to start with. (Perhaps I'm thinking about the problem in a wrong way, but that's how it feels.)

Would you be willing to link to it and give us a quick description of how you made the recording?

Well, not actually that specific song - (various reasons) - but I started working on a couple ideas for the "February Challenge" here last night so I'm intending to have something up here soon that hopefully I can get some feedback on.

My setup at home for now - iMac, Garageband with all available "Jam Packs" of sounds, and an old Ensoniq ZR-76 keyboard that I got off eBay in the mid 1990s. (It was state of the art back then. I wanted it because it has an amazing piano sound on its own, and has a sequencer built in, but it proved too difficult for me to figure it all out - it only has a little 2-line LCD display, I found it too awkward trying to navigate through making a full multi-track recording so I never got past a few rough "sketches." Having a program where the whole piece is visually laid out on a screen now has helped me understand things more already and I'm more confident that I can actually get somewhere with my music now.)
posted by dnash at 8:45 AM on February 18, 2010

an old Ensoniq ZR-76 keyboard

Well, that simplifies one part of the process—you get to just go straight from the keyboard to your iMac via a patch cable instead of having to mic a physical piano. Heh.

I never did any serious recording before software DAWs were reasonably cheap and accessible, so I've avoided fiddling much with built-in multitrack functionality on keyboards and such. Having a proper workstation to lay stuff out in seems just yards more sane-making, yeah.

Well, not actually that specific song - (various reasons) - but I started working on a couple ideas for the "February Challenge" here last night so I'm intending to have something up here soon that hopefully I can get some feedback on.

Awesome. Looking forward to it.
posted by cortex at 8:52 AM on February 18, 2010

Well, that simplifies one part of the process—you get to just go straight from the keyboard to your iMac via a patch cable instead of having to mic a physical piano. Heh.

Yes. I just have a basic USB MIDI cable that connects the keyboard to the iMac. Unfortunately with that set up I cannot record using the sounds that exist on the ZR-76 itself. But for the piano at least, there are some very usable piano sounds in Garageband, (I particularly like the "orchestra Steinway piano" that comes in the "symphony orchestra jam pack.")

(my understanding is that at some point if I get an actual audio interface box I should be able to use the ZR-76's sounds - not with MIDI, but just by recording them directly like any other instrument.)

I'm considering the purchase of a microphone, should I get bold enough to attempt my own vocals. (I'm far less secure about my singing than my keyboard playing, though I did take a couple months of group vocal classes at Chicago's Old Town School a few years ago.)
posted by dnash at 9:01 AM on February 18, 2010

(my understanding is that at some point if I get an actual audio interface box I should be able to use the ZR-76's sounds - not with MIDI, but just by recording them directly like any other instrument.)

You should be able to do this now, really; if you run a cable from either the Phones jack (for stereo) or the Main Left jack (for mono) on the keyboard into your iMac's line-in or mic-in jack, you can record sound directly to Garageband that way. Sound quality for builtin audio jacks isn't always stellar, but it's a start if you're missing being able to record the actual sound output for the ZR-76.

This assumes your iMac has such a jack; my Air doesn't, perhaps you're in the same boat. On the bright side, basic USB audio interfaces are pretty cheap these days, so if you need to go in that direction it won't be too bad.
posted by cortex at 9:18 AM on February 18, 2010

if you run a cable from either the Phones jack (for stereo) or the Main Left jack (for mono) on the keyboard into your iMac's line-in or mic-in jack, you can record sound directly to Garageband that way.

Now, see, I never woulda thought of that.

And I'm 99% sure I do have such a mic-in jack - it's listed on the Apple specs for current iMacs, and mine is only one generation previous.

On the bright side, basic USB audio interfaces are pretty cheap these days

Well, the ones I've looked at that appear worth the trouble are still I think in the $300-400 ish range? Which is, granted, not a fortune but my money's pretty tight these days. It's definitely something on my list for the future though. (Also better speakers!)
posted by dnash at 10:21 AM on February 18, 2010

Depends on what you think is worth it, but there are a lot of choices in the $100 - $200 range
posted by InfidelZombie at 10:56 AM on February 18, 2010

Yeah, really depends on what you need. I made good for about three years with a $100 M-Audio USB Fast Track -- you've got one decent pre-amp and one line-in with which you can do two separate channels or a sort of frankenstein stereo mix with it, so if you're just going to do one track at a time overdubs (pretty much all I have done historically) that'll do you right there.

I recently dropped a couple hundred on it's big brother the Pro, because I wanted two full-blown pre-amps and a saner interface, and because the new one provides phantom power via USB which simplifies my toolchain for recording with my condenser mic since I no longer need to throw a powered mixer in the middle.

But, again, yeah, you're probably fine for the moment just eschewing that entirely and playing with the line-in thing to get used to the basic recording process. Buy an interface once your lack of an interface becomes the biggest problem with your recordings, is about how I look at it.
posted by cortex at 11:04 AM on February 18, 2010

See, I was thinking I'd need an interface that also did MIDI in/out? Wouldn't that be useful for getting better use out of my synth? I mean, if I record from the synth using audio only, I can't fine tune the notes via MIDI, which I admit is something I kind of like doing to help tweak the flawed bits of my playing. It didn't seem worth buying a mic-only interface.
posted by dnash at 11:22 AM on February 18, 2010

Ah, I get you. That's where I part ways with usefulness, as I've done very, very little with MIDI.
posted by cortex at 1:29 PM on February 18, 2010

Some of the ones I linked to, like to TASCAM US 122, have MIDI as well
posted by InfidelZombie at 1:47 PM on February 18, 2010

Ok - I posted my first song here! In the end I did no effects or EQ or anything to it - this is basically what I got in Garageband by recording and hitting "save." (well, ok, I deleted one note, upped the velocity of one note I didn't hit hard enough, and aligned one chord I hit sloppily. But that's literally all I did to it.)
posted by dnash at 5:30 PM on February 18, 2010

that's pretty non-jargony (really, there's a lot of lingo in the recording world that just makes my eyes glaze over and my brain shut down) - something that can help me understand "if your track sounds like X, and you want it to sound more like X+Y

It's kind of handy to be interested in the technical aspects of audio & sound so that you can have a handle on what X and Y are. And jargon is just shorthand...unfortunately, it's somewhat hard to get away from it.

AudioTuts is pretty newbie-friendly, although it seems that they've started to commercialize a bit in the past few months. Mix Magazine is good (or was, anyway), Sound On Sound too as mary8nne mentioned. Recording magazine less so...
posted by Jon-A-Thon at 2:13 PM on February 21, 2010

And jargon is just shorthand...unfortunately, it's somewhat hard to get away from it.

Oh, I know, I'm not trying to avoid it altogether - just looking for some resources that don't presume I already know all the terms, y'know? I'm sure I'll learn them as I go.
posted by dnash at 9:48 AM on February 22, 2010

you should be able to run Midi bother ways between the Keyboard and Garageband hence still tweak the Midi notes where necessary.

the problem with just using the Garageband instruments is that they will always sound sjusta bit generic and fake. and a bit amatuerish.

I've been messing around with this music recordign shenanigans since about 1997 and i'm only just now getting the kind of sounds I want. its a long process.

Iv'e read a few boks on Mixing / recording / DAWs and read a lot of the Classic Tracks artickles on Sound on Sound and all of this comes together slowly into ideas of how to get the sound in your head.
posted by mary8nne at 6:20 AM on February 23, 2010

I'd like to suggest a few things re: polished results on a budget, with a relative lack of knowledge.

First, a good solid condenser mic is your friend -- if you don't get a pure, clean sound as an input, there's nothing you can do to make it better. Total investment on this doesn't need to be more than $80 or so, plus a stand.

Second, you should start by getting your sources in as cleanly as possible, then mixing relative levels until nothing jumps out at you (except those things you want to jump.) Try to find something that works for you in headphones and in monitors. Only after you've reached that point with your original sources should you start adding effects.

Third, when you add effects, add them to solve a problem: your voice's volume varies too much? Compress it. Your piano is just too tinny? Tweak it with EQ. Most of the tracks sound like they're in the room, but one instrument sounds like a direct line-in? Add reverb, echo, or both (in small amounts.)

Later, when you're more experienced, you can start trying to mix like the big boys. For now, you should be mixing like a young woman applies make-up: put on just enough to improve things without anyone knowing you've done anything at all. She shouldn't be trying to look like a fashion model, and you shouldn't be trying to sound like the latest [insert your own favorite huge popular band here] release.

A note about using Garageband instruments: you're triggering them with Midi, so you can always take those midi tracks into another program with better instruments in the future. Don't let the mediocre nature of those sounds bother you for now, seeing as how they're the easiest to fix later.
posted by davejay at 2:32 PM on February 26, 2010 [1 favorite]

Just to add a little to davejay's excellent advice. Newbies tend to overlook on of the most importnat "bits of kit" in recording. Microphone pre-amps. A really good pre-amp can make a relatively cheap mic sound like something a lot more expensive, whereas a really good mic through a cheap pre-amp runs the risk of sounding like shit. I don't know what your budget is, but, knowing what I know now, if I was starting again I'd be looking to invest a large chunk of my cash upfront in something like a Focusrite ISA One and then get something like a Rode NT1A. There are loads of other good preamps around - the DAV BG-1 is another good 'un - but decent ones (i.e. the ones that are worth buying) are not cheap. The ISA and the DAV are at the "entry level" for pro-quality kit. I have just acquired an ISA One (after selling some other gear to pay for it - it was that or divorce!) and....it's fantastic. It's a direct descendent of the ISA110 pre-amp built by Rupert Neve and used on loads of Brit recordings thereafter.
posted by MajorDundee at 10:20 AM on February 28, 2010