How to solve singing flat in 'phones
July 19, 2010 7:58 PM
How I solved my vocal pitching problems (mostly, anyway).
I thought I would post this in case it helped someone else.
I've always had a pitch problem when recording vocals. To a lesser extent when singing live, and not really at all when singing in the car or just accompanying myself with an acoustic.
It was really curious, because I am quite pitch sensitive (very fernickity about guitar tuning, for example) but there seemed to be situations where I couldn't hear the vocal pitch problems.
I narrowed it down to headphones. Not just recording with them, but when monitoring with them, I couldn't hear pitch problems. So I would record and mix on the phones, and it would sound OK, then when I played it on speakers, it would sound pitchy.
Switching to monitoring on speakers only allowed me to identify the pitch problems, but didn't solve the problem. Singing with one can on, one can off (my habit) wasn't working. I tried a bunch of other complicated things using speakers in and out of phase, but no real progress.
However, today I think I fixed it. These turned out to be the keys for me:
1. Use phones, but monitor MUCH lower than before.
2. One can fully on one ear, one can half off the other.
3. MOST IMPORTANT. Set up a headphone mix for recording vocals. Only include drums and some instrument with consistent, non-modulated pitch. No bass and nothing with chorus or flange on it. No bass is the key.
4. Turn down your vocal monitor as much as you can, maybe completely off. Just listen to the sound of your voice through the half-off can.
This really works. The key thing is to have (a) a good pitch reference and (b) to be able to hear you own voice, un-modulated by anything which could disguise pitch problems (eg reverb, chorus).
I checked this on auto-tune, just using it to track the pitches. The way I used to record I was consistently about a quarter to a half semi-tone flat. When I did this, I was dead on pitch (but a bit quavery, which is another problem entirely). I was able to get myself to sing sharp by turning up the cans too loud. Very interesting.
posted by unSane (13 comments total)
2 users marked this as a favorite
I thought I would post this in case it helped someone else.
I've always had a pitch problem when recording vocals. To a lesser extent when singing live, and not really at all when singing in the car or just accompanying myself with an acoustic.
It was really curious, because I am quite pitch sensitive (very fernickity about guitar tuning, for example) but there seemed to be situations where I couldn't hear the vocal pitch problems.
I narrowed it down to headphones. Not just recording with them, but when monitoring with them, I couldn't hear pitch problems. So I would record and mix on the phones, and it would sound OK, then when I played it on speakers, it would sound pitchy.
Switching to monitoring on speakers only allowed me to identify the pitch problems, but didn't solve the problem. Singing with one can on, one can off (my habit) wasn't working. I tried a bunch of other complicated things using speakers in and out of phase, but no real progress.
However, today I think I fixed it. These turned out to be the keys for me:
1. Use phones, but monitor MUCH lower than before.
2. One can fully on one ear, one can half off the other.
3. MOST IMPORTANT. Set up a headphone mix for recording vocals. Only include drums and some instrument with consistent, non-modulated pitch. No bass and nothing with chorus or flange on it. No bass is the key.
4. Turn down your vocal monitor as much as you can, maybe completely off. Just listen to the sound of your voice through the half-off can.
This really works. The key thing is to have (a) a good pitch reference and (b) to be able to hear you own voice, un-modulated by anything which could disguise pitch problems (eg reverb, chorus).
I checked this on auto-tune, just using it to track the pitches. The way I used to record I was consistently about a quarter to a half semi-tone flat. When I did this, I was dead on pitch (but a bit quavery, which is another problem entirely). I was able to get myself to sing sharp by turning up the cans too loud. Very interesting.
Did you read the bit where I said I used it to see how flat or sharp I was?
I ended up doing this because I was consistently singing flat, and not how I wanted it to sound. Information is good. You can use Autotune to diagnose why you don't like the way you sound (and also figure out why the parts you like sound good).
It's absolutely true that if you hit everything exactly on pitch you sound like a robot. But if everything is consistently flat and you don't want it to be, it's very useful to have a way of monitoring that.
posted by unSane at 8:24 PM on July 19, 2010
I ended up doing this because I was consistently singing flat, and not how I wanted it to sound. Information is good. You can use Autotune to diagnose why you don't like the way you sound (and also figure out why the parts you like sound good).
It's absolutely true that if you hit everything exactly on pitch you sound like a robot. But if everything is consistently flat and you don't want it to be, it's very useful to have a way of monitoring that.
posted by unSane at 8:24 PM on July 19, 2010
I've had this problem once before. I usually have a really good sense of pitch, but on one song in particular, I find it unlistenable because I'm horribly flat on the whole thing. It was on an unfamiliar setup, and the recording conditions themselves were less than optimal, so I'm not beating myself up too much over it, but still, it bugs me.
Other than the bit about not including the full mix, I agree with, and generally do exactly as you do, so it usually works out well.
It's tricky to find the right balance between too much and too little of the mix as you go (whether that of what you're doing live or the backing track(s)), so it also helps to use software on which you can save the bloody settings once you find it.
posted by askmeaboutLOOM at 8:28 PM on July 19, 2010
Other than the bit about not including the full mix, I agree with, and generally do exactly as you do, so it usually works out well.
It's tricky to find the right balance between too much and too little of the mix as you go (whether that of what you're doing live or the backing track(s)), so it also helps to use software on which you can save the bloody settings once you find it.
posted by askmeaboutLOOM at 8:28 PM on July 19, 2010
There are some psycho-acoustic reasons why including bass can send you flat. But if you are not monitoring too loud it is not necessarily a problem.
It's really amazing. I was able to control how sharp or flat I was singing by varying the content and volume of the headphone mix, and how much the one phone was slipped off my ear. Dropping anything from the mix which had pitch modulation basically left me with a static pitch reference, which I could tune too. I also dialed down the drums so I had as much pitch info as possible.
Made me feel less like I was going crazy.
Anyway, now I set up a separate headphone mix for doing vocals and it really seems to help.
posted by unSane at 8:40 PM on July 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's really amazing. I was able to control how sharp or flat I was singing by varying the content and volume of the headphone mix, and how much the one phone was slipped off my ear. Dropping anything from the mix which had pitch modulation basically left me with a static pitch reference, which I could tune too. I also dialed down the drums so I had as much pitch info as possible.
Made me feel less like I was going crazy.
Anyway, now I set up a separate headphone mix for doing vocals and it really seems to help.
posted by unSane at 8:40 PM on July 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yes, this is pretty much what I do; I commented about it a while ago.
Like you said, a good combo is low headphone volume, no bass, and listening to yourself "in real life" simultaneously.
posted by chococat at 11:07 AM on July 20, 2010
Like you said, a good combo is low headphone volume, no bass, and listening to yourself "in real life" simultaneously.
posted by chococat at 11:07 AM on July 20, 2010
I tend not to worry much about pitch anymore, but if there's a section I'm having trouble with, I'll pull the right headphone halfway off (maybe I'm right-eared; who knows). I've never tried muting the bass, but maybe I'll give that a go next time. And, I guess just to be contrary, I tend to monitor really fucking loud because I belt. My vocal tracks--even the ones I did on a dynamic mic--are full of leaky percussion.
posted by uncleozzy at 1:33 PM on July 20, 2010
posted by uncleozzy at 1:33 PM on July 20, 2010
You're right, uncleozzy, I meant it's a good combo for me. I think whatever works and helps you get into whatever zone you're aiming for is the way you should go.
But the muting the bass thing did noticeably help me with the flatness. I also sometimes crank it to sing, depends on the song. Turning it way down sometimes helps with pitch but if I need to belt it out then I need some volume to propel it, for sure. Also turning way down when mixing helps to hear which stuff jumps out too much.
posted by chococat at 3:39 PM on July 20, 2010
But the muting the bass thing did noticeably help me with the flatness. I also sometimes crank it to sing, depends on the song. Turning it way down sometimes helps with pitch but if I need to belt it out then I need some volume to propel it, for sure. Also turning way down when mixing helps to hear which stuff jumps out too much.
posted by chococat at 3:39 PM on July 20, 2010
I think an issue or so ago in TapeOp there was a short (sorta handwavey) article about psychoacoustics and volume/pressure effects that mentioned the "mixing/tracking in loud cans = pitch problems" guideline as well. It's something I'll have to think about in my recordings; I basically live out of cans most of the time.
Cutting the volume is a good idea but not practical for everything (e.g. if I'm laying drums down against something the something has to be loud in the mix), though with the specific intent of avoiding problems with vox it seems totally doable. I've taken to having one ear on and one ear half off at times when I wanted a better sense of the live sound, I should try being more consistent about that and see if it has any effect on my satisfaction with vocal takes.
posted by cortex at 10:05 AM on July 23, 2010
Cutting the volume is a good idea but not practical for everything (e.g. if I'm laying drums down against something the something has to be loud in the mix), though with the specific intent of avoiding problems with vox it seems totally doable. I've taken to having one ear on and one ear half off at times when I wanted a better sense of the live sound, I should try being more consistent about that and see if it has any effect on my satisfaction with vocal takes.
posted by cortex at 10:05 AM on July 23, 2010
nth-ing the tip about reducing bass when monitoring. An engineer once explained to me that loud low end in headphones can cause the eardrum to deform slightly and cause the listener to perceive the mix as pitched down a few cents. So you sing in key with the perceived mix and the resulting recorded vox end up flat.
This wasn't a problem for me until I ditched my cheap headphones for decent semi-pro phones that emphasized the low end. Took me awhile to figure out why all my vox takes were suddenly coming out flat in spots.
posted by scottandrew at 1:17 PM on July 25, 2010
This wasn't a problem for me until I ditched my cheap headphones for decent semi-pro phones that emphasized the low end. Took me awhile to figure out why all my vox takes were suddenly coming out flat in spots.
posted by scottandrew at 1:17 PM on July 25, 2010
this is all really good stuff. i have similar intonation issues with recording double bass and usually go for the one ear on, one off approach. the only problem is that i never feel entirely connected with either the backing track or what i'm playing. i'm not sure there's any way round that one...
posted by peterkins at 3:42 PM on July 25, 2010
posted by peterkins at 3:42 PM on July 25, 2010
This wasn't a problem for me until I ditched my cheap headphones for decent semi-pro phones that emphasized the low end
That's exactly what happened to me. I used to use a pair of fairly cheap Sennheiser open phones, and I upgraded to some AKG240s which are more closed and have a MUCH tighter bass response. That's when I really started having problems. It is probably worth experimenting with cheaper or open phones for tracking.
@peterkins, try the phones fully on one ear and half-on, half-off the other. That seems to get you connected with the track but also able to hear what you're doing.
posted by unSane at 6:36 PM on July 25, 2010
That's exactly what happened to me. I used to use a pair of fairly cheap Sennheiser open phones, and I upgraded to some AKG240s which are more closed and have a MUCH tighter bass response. That's when I really started having problems. It is probably worth experimenting with cheaper or open phones for tracking.
@peterkins, try the phones fully on one ear and half-on, half-off the other. That seems to get you connected with the track but also able to hear what you're doing.
posted by unSane at 6:36 PM on July 25, 2010
this is quite interesting! I've never heard of this issue of bass distorting your eardrums.
I'm a pretty poor vocalist anyway - but sometimes I have found that a part I thought i'd sung was ok. is consistently a little off. I will have to try doing more of a 'headphone monitor mix iwth lower bass'
posted by mary8nne at 8:25 AM on August 2, 2010
I'm a pretty poor vocalist anyway - but sometimes I have found that a part I thought i'd sung was ok. is consistently a little off. I will have to try doing more of a 'headphone monitor mix iwth lower bass'
posted by mary8nne at 8:25 AM on August 2, 2010
You know I had forgotten about this thread until it popped up om my recent activity... And I had gotten sloppy about cutting the bass... And was having pitch problems again. Muted the bass, and instantly back on pitch.
posted by unSane at 5:37 PM on January 13, 2013
posted by unSane at 5:37 PM on January 13, 2013
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You should really sing with whatever makes you feel good to sing with, but learning how to sing with the whole band will make you a better singer because instead of going for that boring, robot, canned sounding pitch perfect, you'll sound like a live singer on the recording.
This is good. Life is live.
Soulless + faux perfect is just a trend that will seem dated instantly. Embrace your imperfections, learn what your voice does by hearing how it comes out after the fact and your brain will fix it after practicing a few times.
Never let how someone else wrote song dictate how you express yourself.
It's YOUR SONG. Nobody knows how flat or sharp it's supposed to be, how much you wanted to be out of key, whether it was deliberate or accidental. What people CAN tell is whether or not there's soul, whether or not you mean what you sing and especially whether or not you're using pitch correction software.
Pitch correction software destroys the human voice to make something go to a pitch that the singer's talent + soul didn't want to go to. It's not a lazy singer that can't hit the note, it's a lazy producer that can't make it fit without following silly rules.
It's ART. Not baking. There are no rules, just suggestions on how to make stuff like other people did, to save time on relearning.
posted by reklus at 8:18 PM on July 19, 2010