Beginner drum tips & resources?
July 22, 2009 5:08 PM
So I just bought myself a drumkit. I have functionally no drumming experience. Where to start?
posted by cortex (45 comments total) 6 users marked this as a favorite
posted by cortex (45 comments total) 6 users marked this as a favorite
Do you have any drummer friends? What drummer skills I have I learned almost entirely from musician friends and almost zero from books or tutorials.
Also, a couple links I saved on recording and tuning drums (and a silly cartoon).
I'll admit I know more about recording drums than playing them, however, so if I can help you out with that just let me know.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 5:43 PM on July 22, 2009
Also, a couple links I saved on recording and tuning drums (and a silly cartoon).
I'll admit I know more about recording drums than playing them, however, so if I can help you out with that just let me know.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 5:43 PM on July 22, 2009
I don't even know how to keep down more than a boneheaded kick-and-snare beat.
The keeping down is key, and when you can do that, really put it in the pocket, then you've got something, and it ain't boneheaded, no matter how simple. Of course, kick and snare are the twin gods of the drum set, and the way they speak to each other, the way that pendulum swings, is what drum kit playing is all about, IMO. All the other beat-keeping stuff (hi-hat, ride cymbal patterns) is there to delineate and support what the kick and snare do. But that placement, that fulcrum, that balance between kick and snare, that's the crucial thing.
I'd recommend a heavy dose of listening to the great simple drummers. Let Neil Peart amaze his geeky fans with his stunning pyrotechnics while you immerse yourself in the recorded works of Memphis (something in the water down there) drummers Howard Grimes (unsung hero of Stax drumming, backed Al Green on numerous tracks) and Al Jackson. He of Al Green and Booket T. The essence of simplicity and impeccable feel. I mean, that's a groove. That's keeping it down. Aspire to that kind of solidity, and singleness of rhythmic purpose, and you can't go wrong.
Practice some basic polyrhythms: simple 2-against-3, 3-against-4. As right/left sticking, and also between your kick foot and right hand, kick foot and left hand, kick and h-ihat pedal foot, and any other combinations you can think of.
Keep your ride cymbal low, so you can move around it easily i.e. get to the bell of the cymbal without too much stretching. You say it's a 5-piece kit, so that means two rack toms, floor tom, kick and snare, right? I'd put that 2nd rack tom aside, and move my ride cymbal right over the kick drum where that 2nd rack tom would be if you had it set up, which you don't cause you're cool.
Don't, I repeat DON'T do that Charlie Watts thing where you never hit the snare and the hi-hat together. It looks stiff, it is stiff. It's counter-intuitive and he's the only drummer I've ever heard of who does it. And he rushes his fills like a mother, so don't you rush your fills. Matter of fact, try to stay away from fills in general until you can keep down that aforementioned boneheaded beat with undeniable rhythmic authority.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:25 PM on July 22, 2009 [6 favorites]
The keeping down is key, and when you can do that, really put it in the pocket, then you've got something, and it ain't boneheaded, no matter how simple. Of course, kick and snare are the twin gods of the drum set, and the way they speak to each other, the way that pendulum swings, is what drum kit playing is all about, IMO. All the other beat-keeping stuff (hi-hat, ride cymbal patterns) is there to delineate and support what the kick and snare do. But that placement, that fulcrum, that balance between kick and snare, that's the crucial thing.
I'd recommend a heavy dose of listening to the great simple drummers. Let Neil Peart amaze his geeky fans with his stunning pyrotechnics while you immerse yourself in the recorded works of Memphis (something in the water down there) drummers Howard Grimes (unsung hero of Stax drumming, backed Al Green on numerous tracks) and Al Jackson. He of Al Green and Booket T. The essence of simplicity and impeccable feel. I mean, that's a groove. That's keeping it down. Aspire to that kind of solidity, and singleness of rhythmic purpose, and you can't go wrong.
Practice some basic polyrhythms: simple 2-against-3, 3-against-4. As right/left sticking, and also between your kick foot and right hand, kick foot and left hand, kick and h-ihat pedal foot, and any other combinations you can think of.
Keep your ride cymbal low, so you can move around it easily i.e. get to the bell of the cymbal without too much stretching. You say it's a 5-piece kit, so that means two rack toms, floor tom, kick and snare, right? I'd put that 2nd rack tom aside, and move my ride cymbal right over the kick drum where that 2nd rack tom would be if you had it set up, which you don't cause you're cool.
Don't, I repeat DON'T do that Charlie Watts thing where you never hit the snare and the hi-hat together. It looks stiff, it is stiff. It's counter-intuitive and he's the only drummer I've ever heard of who does it. And he rushes his fills like a mother, so don't you rush your fills. Matter of fact, try to stay away from fills in general until you can keep down that aforementioned boneheaded beat with undeniable rhythmic authority.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:25 PM on July 22, 2009 [6 favorites]
If you want to maintain a boneheaded beat (for what seems like hours on end but really still in three minute pop songs), listen to The Cure. Their drummer is/was a master at it.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:59 PM on July 22, 2009
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:59 PM on July 22, 2009
Some disorganized thoughts...
Always wear hearing protection when playing a kit with normal solid sticks (when playing with brushes or bundle sticks, you can probably relax about it).
Make sure you're holding the sticks properly. Have someone who knows how show you. If you want to learn to play traditional grip (in addition to overhand) it's probably best to start early.
Learn the rudiments (they're basically in order of importance there). They establish coordination between the hands and good stick control. Practice leading from both hands. So if you're doing a paradiddle don't just do LRLLRLRR but RLRRLRLL. Try to have as little disparity between hands as possible. Consider trying to play open-handed, especially if you're a lefty. I wish I had tried it sooner, but I suck at it.
When you want to practice a particular groove/patter/whathaveyou and really learn it, go at whatever tempo you need to to do it perfectly. Do one part at a time, at comfortably slow tempos (you're using a metronome right?), perfectly, before adding complexity or speed. If you can, record yourself, even if the sound quality sucks, so you can give your full attention to how you actually sound. Strangely, I've discovered things that sounded okay to me were pretty bad on playback.
Besides timing, dynamics (how hard or soft you strike) are what distinguish really great drummers from people hitting things. After you're able to play something comfortably, try practicing it as quietly as possible while keeping in time (you're using a metronome right?). Then try picking notes to accent as you go.
Limb independence comes slowly. Here is some great advice.
If you don't read music, now is a good time to learn.
These guys make the best practice pads (I have some friends who are percussion majors and otherwise criminally good and they all seem to agree on this). You'll probably want to get one for when you're away from your kit. I've got one of these and I'm happy with it (for practicing when it would bother people, or when away from my kit).
Tap your fingers, hands, feet. You can always practice limb independence.
Imagine songs when you sit down at the kit. Try to improvise to their feel.
And now, some recordings of what I feel to be great drumming:
Funkier Than A Mosquito's Tweeter
Xennakis' Rebounds B
The Purdie Shuffle
Jim Chapin Demonstrates the Purdie Shuffle
Steve Gadd's drumming for 50 Ways To Leave your Lover
More Steve Gadd
The Meters - Cissy Strut
Battles - Tonto
Hella - Biblical Violence and 1-800 Ghost Dance
posted by phrontist at 10:29 PM on July 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
Always wear hearing protection when playing a kit with normal solid sticks (when playing with brushes or bundle sticks, you can probably relax about it).
Make sure you're holding the sticks properly. Have someone who knows how show you. If you want to learn to play traditional grip (in addition to overhand) it's probably best to start early.
Learn the rudiments (they're basically in order of importance there). They establish coordination between the hands and good stick control. Practice leading from both hands. So if you're doing a paradiddle don't just do LRLLRLRR but RLRRLRLL. Try to have as little disparity between hands as possible. Consider trying to play open-handed, especially if you're a lefty. I wish I had tried it sooner, but I suck at it.
When you want to practice a particular groove/patter/whathaveyou and really learn it, go at whatever tempo you need to to do it perfectly. Do one part at a time, at comfortably slow tempos (you're using a metronome right?), perfectly, before adding complexity or speed. If you can, record yourself, even if the sound quality sucks, so you can give your full attention to how you actually sound. Strangely, I've discovered things that sounded okay to me were pretty bad on playback.
Besides timing, dynamics (how hard or soft you strike) are what distinguish really great drummers from people hitting things. After you're able to play something comfortably, try practicing it as quietly as possible while keeping in time (you're using a metronome right?). Then try picking notes to accent as you go.
Limb independence comes slowly. Here is some great advice.
If you don't read music, now is a good time to learn.
These guys make the best practice pads (I have some friends who are percussion majors and otherwise criminally good and they all seem to agree on this). You'll probably want to get one for when you're away from your kit. I've got one of these and I'm happy with it (for practicing when it would bother people, or when away from my kit).
Tap your fingers, hands, feet. You can always practice limb independence.
Imagine songs when you sit down at the kit. Try to improvise to their feel.
And now, some recordings of what I feel to be great drumming:
Funkier Than A Mosquito's Tweeter
Xennakis' Rebounds B
The Purdie Shuffle
Jim Chapin Demonstrates the Purdie Shuffle
Steve Gadd's drumming for 50 Ways To Leave your Lover
More Steve Gadd
The Meters - Cissy Strut
Battles - Tonto
Hella - Biblical Violence and 1-800 Ghost Dance
posted by phrontist at 10:29 PM on July 22, 2009 [2 favorites]
Whoops. Chapin is doing the moeller method, not the shuffle. Sorry.
posted by phrontist at 10:30 PM on July 22, 2009
posted by phrontist at 10:30 PM on July 22, 2009
As someone in almost the exact same boat (serendipity!), I'm delighted to see this post and follow what the real experts have to say in response.
My experience is really limited and I've only spent the last couple of months really digging in. But I'm happy to share what I've gleaned.
1) Your best Portland bets for drum shops are Trade Up Music and Rhythm Traders.
Trade Up is an awesome, quintessentially Portland place to buy all kinds of musical equipment. They have a location in NE and in SE. I wouldn't be surprised to learn almost every local band shops there. Their stock is 50-80% comprised of used-but-good-condition stuff, and their prices are surprisingly competitive with ebay / craigslist, but without the attendant risk of hassles / ripoffs.
Since so much of their stuff is trade-in, what's on the shelf at each of their locations can be pretty different; it's worth visiting both. Their staff is very cool and very laid-back. Nobody seems to have a problem if you, say, show up and bang on their snares for an hour just to find out what they sound like. (They have a room for this.) They're also a great source for the bits and pieces, like lugs or wingnuts or hoops that are missing / rusted / broken on your kit.
The staff's not patronizing, but if you go in with a lot of newbie questions, like I tend to, you might get a lot of vague answers. A lot of "well, yeah, some people like x and some people like y, it's really up to you." (shrug).
Rhythm Traders is also great. They seem like a larger-but-still-local (or semi-local) outfit. Go to their new big-ass location on MLK and have a look around. They have a much bigger selection of new equipment, and a lot of electronic drum stuff if you're curious about that at all. They do carry some used stuff, but not as much as Trade Up; they're mostly centered around new stuff.
Prices are competitive with other music equipment chains; 30-60% off "list" price, more or less the same as you'd find on guitarcenter.com or similar. Trade Up's probably 25% cheaper if there's something they both happen to carry. Rhythm Traders also have a 'store brand' of drum (snares / toms) that's pretty inexpensive and actually pretty nice to look at; although probably not going to be an acoustic improvement over what you've already got.
Rhythm Traders' main advantage over Trade Up, aside from having a much bigger selection of new equipment, is their staff is actually really informative. If you want to chat / dork out on drum equipment, even as a newbie, they're totally indulgent and fun to talk to. Pressure to buy is, surprisingly, low-to-nonexistent.
I worked with Alex Yore at the MLK location and he was awesome; he loved drumming, was familiar with all kinds of musical styles from shoegaze to death metal, answered the dumbest questions without making me feel dumb, and gave me plenty of space to just play around / mull everything over. There was zero pressure to buy anything. I took his card and I'd ask for him again in a second.
Finally, there's always craigslist. We're lucky, it's a good time to be (re)discovering a new instrument. There's out-of-work musicians aplenty and the Musical Instruments section of craigslist reflects this. I found and purchased my dream hi-hat stand ($250+ new) for $50 on Portland craigslist the other day and I have no doubt I could have argued the guy even lower if I were so inclined. It's worth keeping an eye on as you add to (or outgrow) your setup.
2) The core of your drumming experience is your Snare, Throne, and then Hi-Hat and Bass Drum, in that order.
Over and over I find people emphasize the importance of an excellent-sounding snare; especially on askme. It makes sense because it's the centerpiece of pretty much everything you're doing, in pretty much every musical style. A bad snare sound is going to subliminally put you off drumming forever; a rad snare is going to make you feel like a king. Once your brain's all hung up on drums you'll start to hear really dramatic differences in the snare sounds of your favorite bands; there's no one "right" snare sound. But there's definitely wrong ones. This is a big -- but kinda fun -- thing to dork out on.
As for thrones, everyone loves Roc-n-Soc. The Roc-n-Socs I found were just a shade out of my price range, and instead I found an awesome deal on a nice new Tama throne that I'm happy with. From my limited experience I'd say this is a very worthwhile area to invest some money. If you're ever going to use your throne for extended playing, your physical comfort's pretty much dependent on how comfortable your throne is. Don't underestimate it. Definitely never use a folding chair or something because you'll hate yourself before very long.
The feel of your hi-hat and bass pedals are going to be a pretty personal call. Lots of good hi-hat stands and bass pedals are adjustable for different levels of tension, etc. The beater on your bass pedal makes a tonal difference in your bass drum sound if that's important to you; a felt beater has more tone and fullness, a hard beater has more snap and punches through your band's cacophony more clearly. This is probably more granular than you or I need to get at this point in our drumming careers.
3) You learn technique from practice.
This is the nut of your question, and where more experienced players are going to have more insight than me. I played drums for about five months before I moved to Portland, and none at all in the interim (unless you count tons of Rock Band drumming). It's hard to find a place to play!
The best investment I've made is a practice pad that I keep with some sticks by my computer; I kind of automatically grab it and pat-a-pat-a-pat on it while I'm thinking, or while I watch some random youtube video. You end up actually getting some quality technique / sticking practice in without realizing it and it's kinda fun.
I've also found generic drum-lesson sites like freedrumlessons.com etc are actually better than you'd think, at least for fundamentals. Vic Firth's site has straightforward pattern exercises for things like paradiddles and other play-along rudiments, that I've found totally interesting and useful. You can do all these on your practice pad just as well as your kit. Great practice for your sticking and consistency, and it keeps your hands busy.
But another advantage of there being so many of those aforementioned out-of-work musicians is that everybody's trying to sell lessons. I haven't taken any (yet!) but I have a lot of faith in Demetrius Keller, among a couple of other Portland folks currently giving inexpensive lessons. Let me know if you want a session or two and I'll be happy get you their contact information.
Trade Up (at least the North / Alberta location) also sells a little b&w book/zine put together by a local girl that's meant to be an introduction to drumming. It's $10, has everything from buying, to tuning, to standard beat patterns you can practice, and the illustrations are frankly adorable. I recommend it. I just can't find the name of it right now.
But what everyone's going to tell you (and tells me) is nothing surprising; you develop good timing, good rhythm and good style from just playing the shit out of your drums. So I suppose our ultimate lesson is, don't wait for the perfect practice regimen to manifest; just start banging the shit out of them. Just try to play, or at least play with your practice pad, every day -- and have fun.
You're lucky because you've already got style, rhythm and finesse. Spend some time on your kit and these things will manifest in your drumming before you know it.
Cheers and good luck!
posted by churl at 11:06 PM on July 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
My experience is really limited and I've only spent the last couple of months really digging in. But I'm happy to share what I've gleaned.
1) Your best Portland bets for drum shops are Trade Up Music and Rhythm Traders.
Trade Up is an awesome, quintessentially Portland place to buy all kinds of musical equipment. They have a location in NE and in SE. I wouldn't be surprised to learn almost every local band shops there. Their stock is 50-80% comprised of used-but-good-condition stuff, and their prices are surprisingly competitive with ebay / craigslist, but without the attendant risk of hassles / ripoffs.
Since so much of their stuff is trade-in, what's on the shelf at each of their locations can be pretty different; it's worth visiting both. Their staff is very cool and very laid-back. Nobody seems to have a problem if you, say, show up and bang on their snares for an hour just to find out what they sound like. (They have a room for this.) They're also a great source for the bits and pieces, like lugs or wingnuts or hoops that are missing / rusted / broken on your kit.
The staff's not patronizing, but if you go in with a lot of newbie questions, like I tend to, you might get a lot of vague answers. A lot of "well, yeah, some people like x and some people like y, it's really up to you." (shrug).
Rhythm Traders is also great. They seem like a larger-but-still-local (or semi-local) outfit. Go to their new big-ass location on MLK and have a look around. They have a much bigger selection of new equipment, and a lot of electronic drum stuff if you're curious about that at all. They do carry some used stuff, but not as much as Trade Up; they're mostly centered around new stuff.
Prices are competitive with other music equipment chains; 30-60% off "list" price, more or less the same as you'd find on guitarcenter.com or similar. Trade Up's probably 25% cheaper if there's something they both happen to carry. Rhythm Traders also have a 'store brand' of drum (snares / toms) that's pretty inexpensive and actually pretty nice to look at; although probably not going to be an acoustic improvement over what you've already got.
Rhythm Traders' main advantage over Trade Up, aside from having a much bigger selection of new equipment, is their staff is actually really informative. If you want to chat / dork out on drum equipment, even as a newbie, they're totally indulgent and fun to talk to. Pressure to buy is, surprisingly, low-to-nonexistent.
I worked with Alex Yore at the MLK location and he was awesome; he loved drumming, was familiar with all kinds of musical styles from shoegaze to death metal, answered the dumbest questions without making me feel dumb, and gave me plenty of space to just play around / mull everything over. There was zero pressure to buy anything. I took his card and I'd ask for him again in a second.
Finally, there's always craigslist. We're lucky, it's a good time to be (re)discovering a new instrument. There's out-of-work musicians aplenty and the Musical Instruments section of craigslist reflects this. I found and purchased my dream hi-hat stand ($250+ new) for $50 on Portland craigslist the other day and I have no doubt I could have argued the guy even lower if I were so inclined. It's worth keeping an eye on as you add to (or outgrow) your setup.
2) The core of your drumming experience is your Snare, Throne, and then Hi-Hat and Bass Drum, in that order.
Over and over I find people emphasize the importance of an excellent-sounding snare; especially on askme. It makes sense because it's the centerpiece of pretty much everything you're doing, in pretty much every musical style. A bad snare sound is going to subliminally put you off drumming forever; a rad snare is going to make you feel like a king. Once your brain's all hung up on drums you'll start to hear really dramatic differences in the snare sounds of your favorite bands; there's no one "right" snare sound. But there's definitely wrong ones. This is a big -- but kinda fun -- thing to dork out on.
As for thrones, everyone loves Roc-n-Soc. The Roc-n-Socs I found were just a shade out of my price range, and instead I found an awesome deal on a nice new Tama throne that I'm happy with. From my limited experience I'd say this is a very worthwhile area to invest some money. If you're ever going to use your throne for extended playing, your physical comfort's pretty much dependent on how comfortable your throne is. Don't underestimate it. Definitely never use a folding chair or something because you'll hate yourself before very long.
The feel of your hi-hat and bass pedals are going to be a pretty personal call. Lots of good hi-hat stands and bass pedals are adjustable for different levels of tension, etc. The beater on your bass pedal makes a tonal difference in your bass drum sound if that's important to you; a felt beater has more tone and fullness, a hard beater has more snap and punches through your band's cacophony more clearly. This is probably more granular than you or I need to get at this point in our drumming careers.
3) You learn technique from practice.
This is the nut of your question, and where more experienced players are going to have more insight than me. I played drums for about five months before I moved to Portland, and none at all in the interim (unless you count tons of Rock Band drumming). It's hard to find a place to play!
The best investment I've made is a practice pad that I keep with some sticks by my computer; I kind of automatically grab it and pat-a-pat-a-pat on it while I'm thinking, or while I watch some random youtube video. You end up actually getting some quality technique / sticking practice in without realizing it and it's kinda fun.
I've also found generic drum-lesson sites like freedrumlessons.com etc are actually better than you'd think, at least for fundamentals. Vic Firth's site has straightforward pattern exercises for things like paradiddles and other play-along rudiments, that I've found totally interesting and useful. You can do all these on your practice pad just as well as your kit. Great practice for your sticking and consistency, and it keeps your hands busy.
But another advantage of there being so many of those aforementioned out-of-work musicians is that everybody's trying to sell lessons. I haven't taken any (yet!) but I have a lot of faith in Demetrius Keller, among a couple of other Portland folks currently giving inexpensive lessons. Let me know if you want a session or two and I'll be happy get you their contact information.
Trade Up (at least the North / Alberta location) also sells a little b&w book/zine put together by a local girl that's meant to be an introduction to drumming. It's $10, has everything from buying, to tuning, to standard beat patterns you can practice, and the illustrations are frankly adorable. I recommend it. I just can't find the name of it right now.
But what everyone's going to tell you (and tells me) is nothing surprising; you develop good timing, good rhythm and good style from just playing the shit out of your drums. So I suppose our ultimate lesson is, don't wait for the perfect practice regimen to manifest; just start banging the shit out of them. Just try to play, or at least play with your practice pad, every day -- and have fun.
You're lucky because you've already got style, rhythm and finesse. Spend some time on your kit and these things will manifest in your drumming before you know it.
Cheers and good luck!
posted by churl at 11:06 PM on July 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
Great stuff so far, everybody. Thanks. Keep it coming.
1) Your best Portland bets for drum shops are Trade Up Music and Rhythm Traders.
Heh, yep, that was my short list. I got to feeling extra impulsive today (been thinking about this for a while now) and went to Rhythm Traders, asked a bunch of questions and then bought a B1 set in crimson and a ZBT cymbal set off of (drumroll [heh] please) Alex Yore.
Also went ahead and grabbed a Roc-n-Soc because, yeah, I've learned the value of paying for a comfortable seat. That's money that goes a long-ass way.
posted by cortex at 11:21 PM on July 22, 2009
1) Your best Portland bets for drum shops are Trade Up Music and Rhythm Traders.
Heh, yep, that was my short list. I got to feeling extra impulsive today (been thinking about this for a while now) and went to Rhythm Traders, asked a bunch of questions and then bought a B1 set in crimson and a ZBT cymbal set off of (drumroll [heh] please) Alex Yore.
Also went ahead and grabbed a Roc-n-Soc because, yeah, I've learned the value of paying for a comfortable seat. That's money that goes a long-ass way.
posted by cortex at 11:21 PM on July 22, 2009
Always wear hearing protection when playing a kit with normal solid sticks
I just want to reiterate this. A friend of mine played for maybe just 3 or 4 years before he started consistently wearing earplugs, and has suffered extensive high-frequency hearing loss as a result. He keeps the treble cranked so high on his car stereo that it's painful to listen to. You really don't want this to happen to you.
Consider trying to play open-handed, especially if you're a lefty
Oddly, I started playing open-handed, because I am a lefty, and just generally didn't know any better at the time, but eventually switched because I find playing cross-armed more comfortable. I still sometimes find myself riding with my left hand when I'm absentmindedly drumming on my desk, though.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:38 AM on July 23, 2009
I just want to reiterate this. A friend of mine played for maybe just 3 or 4 years before he started consistently wearing earplugs, and has suffered extensive high-frequency hearing loss as a result. He keeps the treble cranked so high on his car stereo that it's painful to listen to. You really don't want this to happen to you.
Consider trying to play open-handed, especially if you're a lefty
Oddly, I started playing open-handed, because I am a lefty, and just generally didn't know any better at the time, but eventually switched because I find playing cross-armed more comfortable. I still sometimes find myself riding with my left hand when I'm absentmindedly drumming on my desk, though.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:38 AM on July 23, 2009
Oh man, you're going to have so much fun. I have serious drum envy. I had a drum set for a while, but then I sold it when I moved. Some day I'll get another one.
I liked the independence exercises in this classic book by Jim Chapin, who died a couple weeks ago at the age of 90.
posted by umbú at 9:30 AM on July 23, 2009
I liked the independence exercises in this classic book by Jim Chapin, who died a couple weeks ago at the age of 90.
posted by umbú at 9:30 AM on July 23, 2009
I started out as a drummer - learned to play snare drum in the Boys Brigade (in a pipe band, no less) and could read the dots etc. I even won a prize! I can still rattle out a paradiddle. There's no quick route to success - you're a musician Cortex, and you know that. You need to learn the basics and go from there. Tuition may be an option?
The best drummers I've played with - including Charlie Morgan (session ace now - Kate Bush and God knows how many others) - always keep it simple. I think Flapjax has given you some sound listening advice from a soul perspective, but I'd add to his list from a Brit rock angle: Simon Kirke (Free, Bad Co), Mick Fleetwood (yes THAT Mick Fleetwood - he's a good drummer - no flash, steady, just does what's needed when it's needed), Alan White (Lennon, Yes) and the criminally underrated Terry Williams (Dire Straits). I'm obviously omitting loads of others who are generally more complex (does not equate with "better") than these, including some of my favourites: the irrepressible Mr Bernard "Pretty" Purdie, Omar Hakim, Joe Morello and on and on
Best drummer I've ever experienced live - no contest: Clem Burke (Blondie). Tears it up from start to finish, a total powerhouse who nails everything to the floor, timing that locks like a steel trap and a consumate showman to boot. Fan-fucking-tastique.
posted by MajorDundee at 2:40 PM on July 23, 2009
The best drummers I've played with - including Charlie Morgan (session ace now - Kate Bush and God knows how many others) - always keep it simple. I think Flapjax has given you some sound listening advice from a soul perspective, but I'd add to his list from a Brit rock angle: Simon Kirke (Free, Bad Co), Mick Fleetwood (yes THAT Mick Fleetwood - he's a good drummer - no flash, steady, just does what's needed when it's needed), Alan White (Lennon, Yes) and the criminally underrated Terry Williams (Dire Straits). I'm obviously omitting loads of others who are generally more complex (does not equate with "better") than these, including some of my favourites: the irrepressible Mr Bernard "Pretty" Purdie, Omar Hakim, Joe Morello and on and on
Best drummer I've ever experienced live - no contest: Clem Burke (Blondie). Tears it up from start to finish, a total powerhouse who nails everything to the floor, timing that locks like a steel trap and a consumate showman to boot. Fan-fucking-tastique.
posted by MajorDundee at 2:40 PM on July 23, 2009
Hey, congrats, cortex. This is great! I hope this comment isn't counterintuitive to any of the advice above. The first and only lessons I ever had were how to hold sticks and how to roll (talking snare/pad for starters).
They were crucial for me because it quickly headed off any potential bad stick holding, and learning how to roll gave me a quick and early accomplishment. The combination of the two helped me slow down a little bit and appreciate the drums as expressive instruments as apposed to BOOM bang BOOM, I'm keeping time.
I started teaching my kids this stuff about a year ago and they're ready for a real kit now.
Kick some ass, man, and I hope to hear some drumming of yours pretty soon!
posted by snsranch at 6:29 PM on July 23, 2009
They were crucial for me because it quickly headed off any potential bad stick holding, and learning how to roll gave me a quick and early accomplishment. The combination of the two helped me slow down a little bit and appreciate the drums as expressive instruments as apposed to BOOM bang BOOM, I'm keeping time.
I started teaching my kids this stuff about a year ago and they're ready for a real kit now.
Kick some ass, man, and I hope to hear some drumming of yours pretty soon!
posted by snsranch at 6:29 PM on July 23, 2009
Yeah, Rhythm Traders provides a free lesson with a kit purchase, and I think I'll just call up Alex and see if he's got time in the next week or so to run me through stick/posture basics. Drills and rudiments and such I can happily look up on the internet (and there's some great stuff linked in here already on that front) and run myself through, but having someone say "oh, god, no, don't hold it like that, keep this in mind, try this, hold it like that, etc" would probably be a really, really good idea.
I'm sure I will record drums soon, even if it's super sloppy. I've got a VU+N cover to record, after all.
posted by cortex at 9:05 PM on July 23, 2009
I'm sure I will record drums soon, even if it's super sloppy. I've got a VU+N cover to record, after all.
posted by cortex at 9:05 PM on July 23, 2009
The best investment I've made is a practice pad that I keep with some sticks by my computer
This. Much like my success with the ukulele is predicated on it being constantly at hand (so I'm inclined to "accidentally" practice throughout the day when I need something to keep my hands busy), a practice pad will get you drumming even when drumming is the last thing on your mind; hopefully it will become the thing you do with your hands instead of tapping a pen or twisting a paper clip or whatever.
posted by davejay at 4:28 PM on July 24, 2009
This. Much like my success with the ukulele is predicated on it being constantly at hand (so I'm inclined to "accidentally" practice throughout the day when I need something to keep my hands busy), a practice pad will get you drumming even when drumming is the last thing on your mind; hopefully it will become the thing you do with your hands instead of tapping a pen or twisting a paper clip or whatever.
posted by davejay at 4:28 PM on July 24, 2009
OH, and as mentioned above, rhythm is absolutely more important than complexity or technique. I know a jazz drummer who can play fantastic things beautifully -- but he can't keep a solid tempo to save his life, even sober, so even though he's impressive to watch he's difficult to play along with or listen to. I'd much rather have someone just pounding out a simple, solid beat at that point.
posted by davejay at 4:30 PM on July 24, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by davejay at 4:30 PM on July 24, 2009 [1 favorite]
And he rushes his fills like a mother, so don't you rush your fills.
that's because keith keeps speeding it up on him - somehow, they make it work but we mere mortals need to not do it that way
and al jackson was IT
as for me, i use a lot of loops and other stuff - and it's not just what the drums play but how all the other instruments play off of them
posted by pyramid termite at 8:24 PM on July 24, 2009
that's because keith keeps speeding it up on him - somehow, they make it work but we mere mortals need to not do it that way
and al jackson was IT
as for me, i use a lot of loops and other stuff - and it's not just what the drums play but how all the other instruments play off of them
posted by pyramid termite at 8:24 PM on July 24, 2009
....it's not just what the drums play but how all the other instruments play off of them
Why, pt, I almost didn't recognize you in your Captain Obvious suit! ;-)
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:52 PM on July 24, 2009
Why, pt, I almost didn't recognize you in your Captain Obvious suit! ;-)
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:52 PM on July 24, 2009
the thing i struggle with most on drums is dynamics - you don't always need to bee killing the drums. although i'm a huge fan of ear protection and use it often myself, if you're not trying to play over some jerk with a 100 watt Marshall or if it's just you and you need ear protection, you're probably playing too loud. cutting back on your power when you don't need it can really with you hear what you're playing clearly and work more subtlety in to your playing. case in point
posted by mexican at 7:28 AM on July 25, 2009
posted by mexican at 7:28 AM on July 25, 2009
Whew - I've only got a 50w Marshall. But it goes all the way up to 11....
posted by MajorDundee at 4:02 PM on July 25, 2009
posted by MajorDundee at 4:02 PM on July 25, 2009
snsranch, whenever i don't have access to an amp that's at least 100 watts, i first get in a little argument with the sound guy then i have him jack up my mic-ed amp in the monitors and PA. I MUST BE THE LOUDEST! and gotta make the drummer work!
posted by mexican at 7:51 PM on July 25, 2009
posted by mexican at 7:51 PM on July 25, 2009
sns - never seen This Is Spinal Tap? C'mon, you must have... My ref to my amp going up to 11 is a line from that movie.
When I was in bands the biggest fights I used to have about volume were always with prima donna keyboard players - getting all prissy and flouncing off stage in a huff. Naturally, this made me crank things up even more and deliberately drop bum notes or, better still, get some dissonant harmonic feedback pissing into their solos.....God that was fun....
posted by MajorDundee at 12:09 PM on July 26, 2009
When I was in bands the biggest fights I used to have about volume were always with prima donna keyboard players - getting all prissy and flouncing off stage in a huff. Naturally, this made me crank things up even more and deliberately drop bum notes or, better still, get some dissonant harmonic feedback pissing into their solos.....God that was fun....
posted by MajorDundee at 12:09 PM on July 26, 2009
...getting all prissy and flouncing off stage in a huff.
One less keyboard player onstage is always a good thing.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:31 PM on July 26, 2009
One less keyboard player onstage is always a good thing.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:31 PM on July 26, 2009
mexican, I MUST BE THE LOUDEST! Man, I have to share a story about that. In my first band back in '82 or '83 we would step all over each other. It was a fuckin' mess. We played in a little garage WAY out in the country so it was cool to be loud as hell until a neighbor about a 1/2 mile away complained that her hens quit laying eggs. So we chilled out a little.
Not long after, we met Jim, who was a roadie for Randy Rhodes/Ozzy. Brilliant mofo, totally expert on both guitar and sax. He came into our little jam space, totally uninvited (he was the older brother of a friend of ours) and said, "So, you guys are starting a band? The first thing you need to know is how to play LOUD!"
He plugged in his really beautiful PRS guitar into my little Fender twin reverb and turned it all the way up. He knocked our fucking socks off. It was the greatest illustration of command and control of guitar w/ volume ever.
Loud can be really good; for the guitar it opens up a HUGE range of expression. His little bit of showing off really changed how I play guitar. (The nuances that I learned TOTALLY translate to every other kind of string playing.)
MajorDundee, OF COURSE!!!! That's one of the best bits in that movie! (I was just playing the straight man to your giggle factory!)
I should have responded with; "So...that's custom made, eh, wot?!"
posted by snsranch at 6:58 PM on July 26, 2009
Not long after, we met Jim, who was a roadie for Randy Rhodes/Ozzy. Brilliant mofo, totally expert on both guitar and sax. He came into our little jam space, totally uninvited (he was the older brother of a friend of ours) and said, "So, you guys are starting a band? The first thing you need to know is how to play LOUD!"
He plugged in his really beautiful PRS guitar into my little Fender twin reverb and turned it all the way up. He knocked our fucking socks off. It was the greatest illustration of command and control of guitar w/ volume ever.
Loud can be really good; for the guitar it opens up a HUGE range of expression. His little bit of showing off really changed how I play guitar. (The nuances that I learned TOTALLY translate to every other kind of string playing.)
MajorDundee, OF COURSE!!!! That's one of the best bits in that movie! (I was just playing the straight man to your giggle factory!)
I should have responded with; "So...that's custom made, eh, wot?!"
posted by snsranch at 6:58 PM on July 26, 2009
....continuing the Spinal Tap theme, the nearest I ever got to the "bizarre gardening accident" scenario with a drummer was a kit gradually creeping across stage and, in a grand finale, actually falling off the edge. It was, in fairness, a small club gig so no broken bones. Not that he'd have noticed. So what's the gardening connection??.........well, we'd all "indulged" beforehand in a....er....home-grown plant-derived substance. I stopped that after an incident where I got so smashed I couldn't get it together to tune my guitar. I still shudder at the thought. Ah, the folly of youth....
posted by MajorDundee at 2:49 PM on July 27, 2009
posted by MajorDundee at 2:49 PM on July 27, 2009
Purely for fun, here's some really hard-hitting drummers I totally love to watch:
Coady Willis, Big Business. Improvises for a bit at the beginning, then drops into one of the most (IMO) ultra-memorable drum patterns ever written. Right up there with Protest Song '68 for me on the unforgettable-drum-songwriting charts. (Also, Start Your Digging is just an awesome, like, display of force the entire way through)
Johnny Ward (I think), City of Caterpillar - especially love the switch-up at 6:15 and then how he builds from there. Wish they'd kept the camera on him another thirty seconds.
Dave Grohl, playing with Queens of the Stone Age. Grohl still hits hard as hell.
Thomas Hedlund and Magnus Líndberg, Cult of Luna - link goes right to the interlude halfway through "Adrift". Good bit of drum-centric songwriting, plus two drummers for the price of one.
posted by churl at 3:04 PM on July 27, 2009
Coady Willis, Big Business. Improvises for a bit at the beginning, then drops into one of the most (IMO) ultra-memorable drum patterns ever written. Right up there with Protest Song '68 for me on the unforgettable-drum-songwriting charts. (Also, Start Your Digging is just an awesome, like, display of force the entire way through)
Johnny Ward (I think), City of Caterpillar - especially love the switch-up at 6:15 and then how he builds from there. Wish they'd kept the camera on him another thirty seconds.
Dave Grohl, playing with Queens of the Stone Age. Grohl still hits hard as hell.
Thomas Hedlund and Magnus Líndberg, Cult of Luna - link goes right to the interlude halfway through "Adrift". Good bit of drum-centric songwriting, plus two drummers for the price of one.
posted by churl at 3:04 PM on July 27, 2009
Progress report:
I fiddled around some on Thursday and Friday but didn't want to drive the wife crazy (she took those days off, brew festival in town that we hit both days) and so left it that for the weekend.
Spent bits of the weekend itself doing a whole bunch of reading up on the really-basics (trying to suss out good stick balance and posture and grip stuff, figuring out heel-up vs heel-down pedal position, reading and air-sticking out some of the rudiments) from stuff linked her and a few other things I found on mefi and elsewhere.
Have put in about three hours today pounding on drums in the basement, just free form as well as playing along with a couple Tom Petty albums that have approachably simple drumwork throughout.
Feeling pretty okay about very basic limb independence; I can stick four on the hihat while doing very slightly syncopated snare against not-too-complicated bass pedal work. Slowly trying to force various combinations of limbs to ignore each other for groove purposes, with greater or lesser extent depending on the limbs and the patterns.
Feet appear to be a great deal stupider than hands. Biggest hole in my basic beats is getting distracted and the bass ending up off or missing, which is kind of a problem when that's the downbeat.
posted by cortex at 5:25 PM on July 27, 2009
I fiddled around some on Thursday and Friday but didn't want to drive the wife crazy (she took those days off, brew festival in town that we hit both days) and so left it that for the weekend.
Spent bits of the weekend itself doing a whole bunch of reading up on the really-basics (trying to suss out good stick balance and posture and grip stuff, figuring out heel-up vs heel-down pedal position, reading and air-sticking out some of the rudiments) from stuff linked her and a few other things I found on mefi and elsewhere.
Have put in about three hours today pounding on drums in the basement, just free form as well as playing along with a couple Tom Petty albums that have approachably simple drumwork throughout.
Feeling pretty okay about very basic limb independence; I can stick four on the hihat while doing very slightly syncopated snare against not-too-complicated bass pedal work. Slowly trying to force various combinations of limbs to ignore each other for groove purposes, with greater or lesser extent depending on the limbs and the patterns.
Feet appear to be a great deal stupider than hands. Biggest hole in my basic beats is getting distracted and the bass ending up off or missing, which is kind of a problem when that's the downbeat.
posted by cortex at 5:25 PM on July 27, 2009
One of the trickiest "basic" drum skills I've encountered (and not yet conquered) is a good pick-up note on the bass drum. The "pick-up" is the UH in 4-ee-and-uh, basically the last sixteenth note in the measure. It requires a fine touch to hit the pick-up and then nail the downbeat on the very next sixteenth note, even at moderate tempos. It'll really test your mettle to have the downbeat fall squarely on the second hit.
For some reason, after learning more straight ahead rock beats first, this tasty bass drum skill has been a real challenge for me. Get it down, and you will be one funky fella. Pretty essential for hip-hop, r&b, funk drumming. You can really swing it down there.
And don't forget to play in three (or six/nine/twelve) every once in a while!
posted by abc123xyzinfinity at 8:47 PM on July 27, 2009
For some reason, after learning more straight ahead rock beats first, this tasty bass drum skill has been a real challenge for me. Get it down, and you will be one funky fella. Pretty essential for hip-hop, r&b, funk drumming. You can really swing it down there.
And don't forget to play in three (or six/nine/twelve) every once in a while!
posted by abc123xyzinfinity at 8:47 PM on July 27, 2009
I think I'm actually more comfortable in three/six/swing than I am in straight time, actually, with my early playing at least. I find it easier to get into (or, well, flail my way into) slightly more complicated or expressive grooves and variations in that sort of feel than I do with a four. Not sure why that is, but there it is.
I've been trying to mix it up between them, regardless. Even tried to trap out a little bit of 5/4, though I have a hell of a time doing more than knocking out the stark skeleton of that one.
I videotaped myself playing for a half an hour or so earlier this evening; I'll try and edit down a little highlight reel tomorrow and throw it up on youtube.
posted by cortex at 9:26 PM on July 27, 2009
I've been trying to mix it up between them, regardless. Even tried to trap out a little bit of 5/4, though I have a hell of a time doing more than knocking out the stark skeleton of that one.
I videotaped myself playing for a half an hour or so earlier this evening; I'll try and edit down a little highlight reel tomorrow and throw it up on youtube.
posted by cortex at 9:26 PM on July 27, 2009
The aforementioned highlight reel.
Every dead drummer from Baby Dodds to John Bonham is spinning in his grave right now.
Seriously, though, that ain't half bad, Josh! I'd say you're going to be a fine drummer!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:58 PM on July 28, 2009
Every dead drummer from Baby Dodds to John Bonham is spinning in his grave right now.
Seriously, though, that ain't half bad, Josh! I'd say you're going to be a fine drummer!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:58 PM on July 28, 2009
spinning in his grave
Double-stroke rolling, surely.
Recorded some one-room-mic drums (now there's a big new hole in my recording situation) for my finally-getting-down-to-it cover of Femme Fatale, prepare to be somethinged.
posted by cortex at 5:03 PM on July 28, 2009
Double-stroke rolling, surely.
Recorded some one-room-mic drums (now there's a big new hole in my recording situation) for my finally-getting-down-to-it cover of Femme Fatale, prepare to be somethinged.
posted by cortex at 5:03 PM on July 28, 2009
Double-stroke rolling, surely.
Well, I reckon Bonham's doing a single stroke roll...
...prepare to be somethinged.
My new favorite phrase.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:00 PM on July 28, 2009
Well, I reckon Bonham's doing a single stroke roll...
...prepare to be somethinged.
My new favorite phrase.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:00 PM on July 28, 2009
The aforementioned highlight reel.
Day four? Hell, you can replace my current drummer NOW!
I love the part in which you almost edit out dropping a stick. Now that's honesty in journalism.
Seriously, for 4 days, I'm impressed. There are at least a couple sections that I can jam with right now.
Good show, cortex, and thanks for sharing your endeavor!
posted by snsranch at 7:54 PM on July 28, 2009
Day four? Hell, you can replace my current drummer NOW!
I love the part in which you almost edit out dropping a stick. Now that's honesty in journalism.
Seriously, for 4 days, I'm impressed. There are at least a couple sections that I can jam with right now.
Good show, cortex, and thanks for sharing your endeavor!
posted by snsranch at 7:54 PM on July 28, 2009
That's actually damn good for four days of practice.
That said, here is some hopefully constructive criticism...
METRONOME. OBEY THE METRONOME. Seriously, the sooner you make this a habit, the sooner you'll be laying down the really freakin' solid Steve Jordan worthy groove.
Watch your hands. You're changing their orientation in to something more akin to french grip by rotating them about the radius-ulna axis, which you don't want to do. It's occuring most when you're reaching for the toms.
You're doing a good job of drawing from the grand american collective unconscious of drum grooves - but you're not maintaining a steady high-hat pulse where one would be considered normal. I did this for ages (upwards of 9 months) and tried to convince myself it was just my style, not a shortcoming. Trust me, it's a good habit to get a good grip on the pulse because:
1) It will be expected if you play with or for others.
2) It helps you feel/hear your other parts (on other limbs) against something steady. If you really want to get hardcore, many drum teachers recommend counting on the quarter notes with your voice (which is harder than it sounds).
3) What you're hiding from is limb independence. Embrace it.
I actually do tend to favor this style ("linear") a bit more than is common even though I've learned to play the more common "layered" style. Mixing them up across bars sounds great.
Now all that said, I think it's important split your practice time between screwing-around-having-fun and the-hard-stuff-that-frustrates-you. As time goes on, the boundary will progressively blur.
Keep at it. I look forward to encountering you at some pan-metafilter drum circle.
posted by phrontist at 8:47 PM on July 29, 2009
That said, here is some hopefully constructive criticism...
METRONOME. OBEY THE METRONOME. Seriously, the sooner you make this a habit, the sooner you'll be laying down the really freakin' solid Steve Jordan worthy groove.
Watch your hands. You're changing their orientation in to something more akin to french grip by rotating them about the radius-ulna axis, which you don't want to do. It's occuring most when you're reaching for the toms.
You're doing a good job of drawing from the grand american collective unconscious of drum grooves - but you're not maintaining a steady high-hat pulse where one would be considered normal. I did this for ages (upwards of 9 months) and tried to convince myself it was just my style, not a shortcoming. Trust me, it's a good habit to get a good grip on the pulse because:
1) It will be expected if you play with or for others.
2) It helps you feel/hear your other parts (on other limbs) against something steady. If you really want to get hardcore, many drum teachers recommend counting on the quarter notes with your voice (which is harder than it sounds).
3) What you're hiding from is limb independence. Embrace it.
I actually do tend to favor this style ("linear") a bit more than is common even though I've learned to play the more common "layered" style. Mixing them up across bars sounds great.
Now all that said, I think it's important split your practice time between screwing-around-having-fun and the-hard-stuff-that-frustrates-you. As time goes on, the boundary will progressively blur.
Keep at it. I look forward to encountering you at some pan-metafilter drum circle.
posted by phrontist at 8:47 PM on July 29, 2009
Egads! At 2:04 you do this thing with your index finger on your high-hat hand... it's extended along the shaft of the stick. Don't do that! Also, at 1:55 the same hand is essentially inverted from it's proper position. This may be because playing open-handed is uncomfortable at the height you've set your high-hat. You could adjust that, or switch to cross.
Not to impinge on your free-spirited groove channeling my friend, but sitting up straight is important. It'll really start to hurt your playing and your back if you slump over like that.
Okay, enough nitpicking. I know you were just goofing around, and I don't want to be That Guy, it's just that these little things are best nipped in the bud.
posted by phrontist at 8:57 PM on July 29, 2009
Not to impinge on your free-spirited groove channeling my friend, but sitting up straight is important. It'll really start to hurt your playing and your back if you slump over like that.
Okay, enough nitpicking. I know you were just goofing around, and I don't want to be That Guy, it's just that these little things are best nipped in the bud.
posted by phrontist at 8:57 PM on July 29, 2009
Nitpicking is totally okay. I'm wildly faking it for the most part and while half the stuff I'm doing wrong is stuff I know I should do differently but just haven't built up a habit yet, the other half is shit I don't know know what the right way to do things is. Specific callouts are very, very welcome.
The posture thing is, yeah. I'm kind of shitty about my posture in general, but I want to be more mindful of it while drumming so I don't kill my back (and make it harder to move around the kit cleanly as well).
Unsteady hihat, check: I've been trying to drill out even time, playing it straight intentionally against complicated-for-me stuff with the foot and the right hand (or left hand if I'm playing ride) but if I don't concentrate on it it gets pretty goofy when I'm playing around with groove stuff. I have the same problem with non-braindead bass pedal work—keeping up something other than 1-3- or four-on-the-floor while doing other things takes a lot of active concentration at this point.
Hand position I've been reading up on and trying to do properly using matched grip and keeping my palms down and my elbows out, etc, but again with the limited-attention problem; I start concentrating on something else and then my hands just end up in some other position or whatever. The grip thing is something I feel like I need to bug a drummer friend to come over and sort of slap me on the wrist for in person some time, since it's hard to feel super confident about that from just browsing internet resources.
I should try playing against a straight metronome/click, yeah, but so far I've been mixing it up with freestyle fuckaround stuff and not sweating tempo too much, and playing along to rock tracks in headphones to try and beat out steady rock stuff in time and ape specific patterns. Like I said earlier, it's been a lot of Tom Petty so far, which is a pretty good match for me since I know the songs down cold in general, tempo varies without ever being crazy, and the beats are all pretty straightforward and not overly complex or showy.
posted by cortex at 9:07 PM on July 29, 2009
The posture thing is, yeah. I'm kind of shitty about my posture in general, but I want to be more mindful of it while drumming so I don't kill my back (and make it harder to move around the kit cleanly as well).
Unsteady hihat, check: I've been trying to drill out even time, playing it straight intentionally against complicated-for-me stuff with the foot and the right hand (or left hand if I'm playing ride) but if I don't concentrate on it it gets pretty goofy when I'm playing around with groove stuff. I have the same problem with non-braindead bass pedal work—keeping up something other than 1-3- or four-on-the-floor while doing other things takes a lot of active concentration at this point.
Hand position I've been reading up on and trying to do properly using matched grip and keeping my palms down and my elbows out, etc, but again with the limited-attention problem; I start concentrating on something else and then my hands just end up in some other position or whatever. The grip thing is something I feel like I need to bug a drummer friend to come over and sort of slap me on the wrist for in person some time, since it's hard to feel super confident about that from just browsing internet resources.
I should try playing against a straight metronome/click, yeah, but so far I've been mixing it up with freestyle fuckaround stuff and not sweating tempo too much, and playing along to rock tracks in headphones to try and beat out steady rock stuff in time and ape specific patterns. Like I said earlier, it's been a lot of Tom Petty so far, which is a pretty good match for me since I know the songs down cold in general, tempo varies without ever being crazy, and the beats are all pretty straightforward and not overly complex or showy.
posted by cortex at 9:07 PM on July 29, 2009
but if I don't concentrate on it it gets pretty goofy when I'm playing around with groove stuff. I have the same problem with non-braindead bass pedal work—keeping up something other than 1-3- or four-on-the-floor while doing other things takes a lot of active concentration at this point.
Totally normal. My legs seemed intent on playing four to the floor whenever I didn't specifically mind them... and when I started to attempt more complicated patterns, I'd find myself not having hit the kick in four measures.
and playing along to rock tracks in headphones
Yeah, that's fine too. I'm just advocating some external tempo to check yourself against.
The grip thing is something I feel like I need to bug a drummer friend to come over and sort of slap me on the wrist for in person some time, since it's hard to feel super confident about that from just browsing internet resources.
Not a bad idea. I never had anyone do this, but I did have some good drummers check my grip early on and made a point of paying attention to my hand position when playing. Just ask yourself : do I ever see drummers do this? does this feel efficient?
posted by phrontist at 9:17 PM on July 29, 2009
Totally normal. My legs seemed intent on playing four to the floor whenever I didn't specifically mind them... and when I started to attempt more complicated patterns, I'd find myself not having hit the kick in four measures.
and playing along to rock tracks in headphones
Yeah, that's fine too. I'm just advocating some external tempo to check yourself against.
The grip thing is something I feel like I need to bug a drummer friend to come over and sort of slap me on the wrist for in person some time, since it's hard to feel super confident about that from just browsing internet resources.
Not a bad idea. I never had anyone do this, but I did have some good drummers check my grip early on and made a point of paying attention to my hand position when playing. Just ask yourself : do I ever see drummers do this? does this feel efficient?
posted by phrontist at 9:17 PM on July 29, 2009
Couple things after listening to the VU cover and watching your practice video.
You might want to consider cutting your 5 piece down to just kick and snare or kick, snare and one tom. I find that if I'm behind a lot of drums I want to use them all, even if there's no need to. Once you're at a point where you're able to to musical things with just the kick, snare and high hat then go ahead and add more pieces as you start wanting them.
Trying to play complex pasterns is fun, but when you're first starting out it isn't very good practice. Come up with some simple exercises that help you get your basics down and do them for fixed amounts of time with a metronome. Things like just 8ths on the high hat, high hat with kick on 1 and 3, maybe add snare on 2 and 4. No fills. No odd times. No ghost notes Just stupid simple patterns with a metronome, all under control.
Also, using a metronome without headphones can help with controlling your volume. Set the metronome so that it's medium loud or soft and don't drown it out. It's easy to play loud, and in general anything you can play quiet you can play loud, so practice playing quiet.
posted by mexican at 11:58 PM on July 29, 2009
You might want to consider cutting your 5 piece down to just kick and snare or kick, snare and one tom. I find that if I'm behind a lot of drums I want to use them all, even if there's no need to. Once you're at a point where you're able to to musical things with just the kick, snare and high hat then go ahead and add more pieces as you start wanting them.
Trying to play complex pasterns is fun, but when you're first starting out it isn't very good practice. Come up with some simple exercises that help you get your basics down and do them for fixed amounts of time with a metronome. Things like just 8ths on the high hat, high hat with kick on 1 and 3, maybe add snare on 2 and 4. No fills. No odd times. No ghost notes Just stupid simple patterns with a metronome, all under control.
Also, using a metronome without headphones can help with controlling your volume. Set the metronome so that it's medium loud or soft and don't drown it out. It's easy to play loud, and in general anything you can play quiet you can play loud, so practice playing quiet.
posted by mexican at 11:58 PM on July 29, 2009
You might want to consider cutting your 5 piece down to just kick and snare or kick, snare and one tom
Now see, I told cortex way upthread to ditch that 2nd rack tom, but did he do it? NOOOOOO!
I tell ya, I dunno why I bother giving good advice to these whippersnappers who won't listen to their elders...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:33 AM on July 30, 2009
Now see, I told cortex way upthread to ditch that 2nd rack tom, but did he do it? NOOOOOO!
I tell ya, I dunno why I bother giving good advice to these whippersnappers who won't listen to their elders...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:33 AM on July 30, 2009
Heh. I actually have been mostly keeping my drilling routines to kick/snare/hat, and throwing in some ride just to get used to throwing in splashes on the changes or to throw the time-keeping over to the right hand and snare with left. So I'm on-board with the keep-it-simple notion. I'm just still very much in this getting-to-know-you stage with the kit from never having spent any significant time with one before, so I feel compelled to at least touch some of the other shiny bits occasionally.
If I can't manage to just pointedly ignore the extra toms and the ride and so forth sometimes, I have bigger problems than an extra drum or two sitting around. Being able to have them there and not hit them is more the kind of mental territory I'm inclined to operate in. But point taken regardless.
Like phrontist was saying, there's that whole "split your practice time between screwing-around-having-fun and the-hard-stuff-that-frustrates-you" dynamic going on, with a little bit of extra novelty at this poin pushing towards the "screwing-around" side of the equation. :)
posted by cortex at 7:18 AM on July 30, 2009
If I can't manage to just pointedly ignore the extra toms and the ride and so forth sometimes, I have bigger problems than an extra drum or two sitting around. Being able to have them there and not hit them is more the kind of mental territory I'm inclined to operate in. But point taken regardless.
Like phrontist was saying, there's that whole "split your practice time between screwing-around-having-fun and the-hard-stuff-that-frustrates-you" dynamic going on, with a little bit of extra novelty at this poin pushing towards the "screwing-around" side of the equation. :)
posted by cortex at 7:18 AM on July 30, 2009
Maybe he'll start removing pieces after trying to record by direct mic-ing everything. I know that one of the reasons I don't use more drums then I need is because trying to wrangle 7+ mics for one instrument is more work than I usually want to do.
But you know kids...
posted by mexican at 7:19 AM on July 30, 2009
But you know kids...
posted by mexican at 7:19 AM on July 30, 2009
Being able to have them there and not hit them
to be a rock,
and not to roooooooolllllll !!!!!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 2:26 AM on July 31, 2009
to be a rock,
and not to roooooooolllllll !!!!!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 2:26 AM on July 31, 2009
A good place to start would be to pick up a copy of "Elementary Drum method' by Roy Burns and take some lessons with it for a month or two. That should get you learned on the basics like how to hold/swing the sticks, and after two months you'll have the building blocks that are used across the board worked into muscle memory. From there your teacher will probably want to move onto a rock drumming book to get you familiar with the standard full kit techniques, but honestly, you'll probably be better off learning on your own and just rocking out with whatever you can pull off.
I've found that the best way to get better is to find something that's just slightly outside if your present capabilities, something hard but not so hard you can't at least come close to playing it in 10 min or so. Work on that for a few days until you get it down, rinse, repeat.
Once you're up to speed are are competent enough to feel comfortable playing in a band, pick up a copy of "Stick Control" by George Lawrence Stone. This is one of those books that drummers of all levels can gain something from, as it contains exercises that were designed like gym workouts. The first three pages alone will blow your mind, and being able to pull off even half of those lines will change your playing get you on the the road to ambidexterity.
That pretty much sums up how I learned to play drums over the course of a decade, with a few months of lessons at the beginning and then again about 6 years in. These two books along with 10,000 hours or so of practice will turn you into a proper drummer.
posted by waxboy at 9:51 AM on August 1, 2009
I've found that the best way to get better is to find something that's just slightly outside if your present capabilities, something hard but not so hard you can't at least come close to playing it in 10 min or so. Work on that for a few days until you get it down, rinse, repeat.
Once you're up to speed are are competent enough to feel comfortable playing in a band, pick up a copy of "Stick Control" by George Lawrence Stone. This is one of those books that drummers of all levels can gain something from, as it contains exercises that were designed like gym workouts. The first three pages alone will blow your mind, and being able to pull off even half of those lines will change your playing get you on the the road to ambidexterity.
That pretty much sums up how I learned to play drums over the course of a decade, with a few months of lessons at the beginning and then again about 6 years in. These two books along with 10,000 hours or so of practice will turn you into a proper drummer.
posted by waxboy at 9:51 AM on August 1, 2009
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I'm probably more inclined toward meat-and-potatoes pop/rock drumming at this point than anything else, in terms of style. If I don't turn out to be completely terrible, I'll probably want to work on some more subtle territory as well, but for now I don't even know how to keep down more than a boneheaded kick-and-snare beat.
posted by cortex at 5:12 PM on July 22, 2009 [1 favorite]