One more month of Challenge Amnesty? Vote here.

The "amnesty month" idea (for March MeFiMu Challenge) got a pretty good reception, and there's been a fair number of submissions. But I'm thinking another month extension might be a good idea. I have a feeling some of y'all might go for that, and there's a hella lotta good Challenges from past months that are still crying out for some love. But, I'd like to put it to a vote. All in favor, say "aye". All against, say "enormous flaming marsupials". And please note that your humble MeFiMu Challenge coordinator will be in the woods, waaaaay offline, between March 29 and April 1 (and that's Japan time). When I'm back on the nets, I'll check in here, tally the results, and April will either be another amnesty month (which is, er, my vote) or we'll have some new Challenges. Okay? Let the voting begin.
posted by flapjax at midnite (47 comments total)

Amnesty is fine. But personally I'd rather see some of the more popular challenges return for encores, instead -- like "cover another MeFite" -- rather than a more open-ended kind of thing.

(What's the difference? You can still cover another MeFite under the amnesty challenge, you know.)

Well, I dunno. I think part of it is, it's more fun when multiple people submit stuff under the same challenge, which is more likely when there are fewer choices. It somehow feels more, um...participatory?
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 2:49 AM on March 26

"aye".

But let's see what everyone else says, because a second month might not be as exciting for everyone. Me, I had a friend visiting from abroad (he just left and today arrives another one) so I didn't have as much free time as I thought.

it's more fun when multiple people submit stuff under the same challenge, which is more likely when there are fewer choices

Then, instead of 'cover another mefite', we should have the 'cover a micayetoca song' challenge. Now, wouldn't that be nice?
posted by micayetoca at 4:19 AM on March 26

Personally I think the best aspect of the challenges are inspiring new ideas, there's been a few times where I hadn't written anything for a while and than I'll see a new challenge and have something written that night. Every month is already kinda like an amnesty month, if I have an idea inspired from a past challenge I'm going to roll with it, regardless of whether or not it's amnesty month. You said in the past that you've been flooded with ideas from users, why not share the love?
posted by BrnP84 at 5:55 AM on March 26

You said in the past that you've been flooded with ideas from users, why not share the love?

Actually, BrnP84, I can't recall saying I'd been flooded with ideas! Did I say that? We actually need more ideas! Now, I haven't gone with every single idea that's been sent to me, and that's because I don't think every single idea I've received has been good enough. When I took on the responsibility of coordinating this thing every month, I also, for better or worse, assumed that mine was a sort of "filtering" position. Some ideas that have been submitted have, in my opinion, been a little weak, and those I haven't gone with.

Now, that's not to say that there aren't some good ones left to go with, but, point of fact, not all that many, really. I might've just made some enemies with that statement, but I'm just being honest...

Karlos writes: "it's more fun when multiple people submit stuff under the same challenge"

Agreed, absolutely. I'd love to see a lot more of that "oh, look how MeFier X did it, compared to how MeFier Y did it!" kind of thing. But there are almost never enough submissions in any given month to even get that far. As far as Karlos's suggestion: "I'd rather see some of the more popular challenges return for encores...", well that's an interesting idea, and I'm not dismissing it, but I'd still rather, in general practice, go with new ideas every month. SO... y'all please send me more ideas, okay? Really think about it, and try to come up with more, and send 'em to me. Cause, we really need more. BUT, having said that, if there are some particular past "classic" Challenges that anyone would like to suggest "re-running" in some month ahead, please do so.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:02 AM on March 26

Oh, also, the 'cover a micayetoca song' is now an Official Ongoing Challenge, and all MeFi Musicians are encouraged to do so any time. Multiple times.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:04 AM on March 26

The Amnesty idea has a warm place in my heart because I love the idea of people going back to old challenges if the new ones aren't clicking for them, but I think one month of official amnesty is probably enough to kind of establish that idea. Amenesty's always a possibility, folks can go back if they like without needing specific prompting, etc.

So I'm all for dropping some new ideas in for next month. If the well's a bit dry as far as the suggestions flapjax has received up to now, let's get our brainstorm on and come up with some new ideas.
posted by cortex at 8:31 AM on March 26

I wouldn't mind seeing "Two chords, period" as a challenge, for example. Three chords is just a little too much harmonic freedom, if you ask me, and being stuck with exactly two is a nice way to make someone realize just how damn few two chords is.

Do you go for the major tonic and dominant? Ditto the minor? Or pull an extended amen cadence with the I and the IV? Moody town with the I and the vi, just flipping back and forth between C and Am? Bluesriff it on G down to F and back? Oscillate between the tonic and the flatted dominant just to piss people off?
posted by cortex at 8:35 AM on March 26

I feel like the challenges are becoming a little too formal, it kinda takes the fun out of the whole thing. Like Lothar said in the past, "challenge, change, and inspiration are likely to get things going. Put out the best, newest, most interesting Challenge ideas and you'll get more submissions and more hot new Challenge ideas." You even said he had a great idea but you refused to use it b/c of some kind of vendetta you had against him. Like I said before, pretty much every month is an amnesty month, if I have a cover idea, spy song, or broken Christmas song I'm not going to record it simply b/c it's not amnesty month. The challenges provide good inspiration and I'd like to see what other people have in mind, even if they aren't up to your standards.
posted by BrnP84 at 8:40 AM on March 26

You heard the man, fellas, get to it!

I'd love to see a lot more of that "oh, look how MeFier X did it, compared to how MeFier Y did it!" kind of thing.

Perhaps we could have a challenge in which we all have to cover the same song in a specific genre (or any song in one specific genre, to make things easier and to encourage participation). That is, we could have the "let's all do a Beatle song mariachi style" challenge, or the "david bowie song unplugged" challenge or something like that.
posted by micayetoca at 8:45 AM on March 26

Should have previewed. That "you heard the man" was about the micayetoca cover challenge.
posted by micayetoca at 8:54 AM on March 26

"challenge, change, and inspiration are likely to get things going. Put out the best, newest, most interesting Challenge ideas and you'll get more submissions and more hot new Challenge ideas."

That sounds beautiful written down, but in practice the reality is that if there isn't someone prompting us, we just let the whole challenge thing die little by little. I can see why it could be said that challenges are a little too formal, but I don't see a way around it. It's definitely not something that happens by itself, it definitely doesn't pick up from "a good month" and flapjax willingness to help organizing them is commendable. I know I wouldn't have done it, despite the fact that I love the challenges, that many great songs have come out of them and that I'd like it when people participate more in Metafilter Music.
posted by micayetoca at 9:27 AM on March 26

we should have the 'cover a micayetoca song' challenge. Now, wouldn't that be nice?

Done it.

Free-form thoughts:
I like the amnesty ones. Actually I spent an evening last weekend doing an amnesty one, the "choral," voice-only one. But in the somber, cold, grey Ontario morning it sounded like Manhattan Transfer or something so it got nixed. But I like the amnesty ones.
And as someone who's done too many of them, I feel like covers should take a rest for a bit. Covers are easy. I like hearing people's original stuff. I'm sure this will come back to bite my ass the next time I do a cover.
I like cortex's "two chords" idea. I like stuff like that, that's really a challenge. Or genre-specific stuff like "spy music." I'll never do the "you must use this phrase" ones, seems like homework more than a challenge.
Let's see...oh, a long time ago I suggested to cortex that a challenge could be to submit your worst song, worst recording. Like something you're really embarrassed of. But then there's the risk that people submit something that's not that bad, calling it their worst so people go "wow, your worst is so good!" Or maybe people don't horde old stuff like I do. I have a well of bad songs. But now I don't know if I'd have the guts to submit my "worst song." Or perhaps I already have.
posted by chococat at 9:30 AM on March 26

I'll never do the "you must use this phrase" ones, seems like homework more than a challenge.

Heh. I like the idea of the phrase ones, but I don't think I've ever used them either, because they meter never agrees with me. Forcing a meter can be an interesting challenge in its own right, but the phrases never feel naturally lyrical to me, so I end up ignoring them.

And yeah, I think worst song could be fun, but I've already posted a lot of weird rushjobs in the past, so I'm both biased toward that sort of thing and already set on that front.

Maybe to sort of address the dynamic chococat mentions, something like "work really fast and loose" as a modified version of it might be good, so it doesn't become such a focus on bad vs. bad-is-still-good but rather a purer Let's See What Happens kind of constraint.
posted by cortex at 9:43 AM on March 26

I like the two chord idea. But would it apply to all notes played or sung in the track, or just to the underlying chords upon which melody and whatnot are built?
posted by The World Famous at 12:01 PM on March 26

I figure that's wholly a matter of personal interpretation.
posted by cortex at 12:14 PM on March 26

ktj,
i think covers of other mefites should be considered a continuing convention, rather than just part of a single month's challenge. we're all here to share, right?
posted by es_de_bah at 12:37 PM on March 26

I love the amnesty challenge. I love the challenges and dream of one day hitting my stride and participating more regularly. One way to work up to this dream is go back and work on old challenges, which made the amnesty inspiring, even though I still haven't gotten around to submitting anything (YET!). However, I think a key question is: what will bring the most number of people into the challenge?, and unfortunately I don't think amnesty is the answer to that question. It's almost too easy and open.

Maybe the challenges could be changed / updated in theme only after a certain number of people have participated? That might encourage people to participate more. Or it could be a disaster. Just a thought.

Also, I had an idea for a challenge: A Song for Every Occasion. Literally.

Write a song for chopping onions. A song for sipping soda out of a straw. A song for putting on your socks. A song for turning the ignition in your car. Another song for rolling down the power windows. A song for pulling into the parking lot. A song for writing a post about an idea for a music challenge. Totally meta.

These could be short, which makes them easier to produce. Full disclosure, I basically do this in my head all day anyway, so it's kind of a selfish challenge request.
posted by abc123xyzinfinity at 5:30 PM on March 26

Interesting points being made here, I hope more folks chime in!

chococat writes: "I'll never do the "you must use this phrase" ones, seems like homework more than a challenge."

Very few people have responded to the LYRIC Challenge. I think I've done the most, and I actually really like that kind of thing, but it seems to have been the least popular overall. I'm thinking we should drop it, and just have the MUSIC and WILDCARD Challenges.

es de bah writes: "i think covers of other mefites should be considered a continuing convention, rather than just part of a single month's challenge."

Definitely. And actually, the idea that MeFiCovers^TM would in fact be a continual thing from now on (not just a one-month Challenge) was made pretty clear in that original "covers" thread, IIRC.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:52 PM on March 26

I love abc123xyzinfinity's idea of the song for every occasion. A song for biking home from work? A song for eating a good sandwich?
posted by umbú at 8:43 PM on March 26

And actually, the idea that MeFiCoversTM would in fact be a continual thing from now on (not just a one-month Challenge) was made pretty clear in that original "covers" thread, IIRC.

"Continual" and "ongoing" often become "lying by the wayside, forgotten," is the thing.

(And the "MeFite Covers" was just an example -- there are other good ones that got a number of fun submissions that it'd be nice to see again.)
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 8:49 PM on March 26

"Continual" and "ongoing" often become "lying by the wayside, forgotten," is the thing.

I wouldn't disagree, but... what's the solution to that? Remind people every month?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:52 PM on March 26

I say no Amnesty. And I also say no more MeFi-themed challenges for a while as well. I have never liked them - they turn the whole Music section into a bit of an in-joke, which I find boring. I liked the spy theme and I liked the scary song theme.
posted by awfurby at 5:10 AM on March 27

And I also say no more MeFi-themed challenges for a while as well.

I hear that, and I wasn't planning on presenting any in the near future. I don't think there are any submitted from anyone, anyway. But, awfurby, you might keep in mind that the majority of Challenges have not been "MeFi-themed". Aside from the 'cover another Mefier's song', I count four Challenges that have had a specifically MeFiMu-related angle: two from January '09, one from September '08, and one from August '08. That's out of a total of 23 Challenges since June '08. Granted, the LYRIC Challenge idea has been to take a quote from a Metafilter comment, but the comments chosen have never referred to MetaFilter at all: they could've come from anywhere, so to speak.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:10 AM on March 27

This is tough, but I have to vote NO on amnesty. Let 'em run their course. (I'm STILL working on some, the products of which cannot even be posted for the LOLZ.)

As far as being too formal, man, as long we're doing this on the interwebs, it's gonna have SOME kinda format. Can't escape that. And as far as I know flapjax is only posting what WE send to him.

On that note, I suggest that WE suggest goofier, simpler and more accessible challenges. Body parts as instruments? Totally accessible to everyone. cortex' "two chords"? Totally accessible. I once suggested music to help zoo elephants get (it on!) romantic. Who doesn't love elephants?!! (Or want to inspire their sex lives?!!)

Seriously now, keep 'em coming flapjax! And don't fret over participation. Some will be home runs, others will fade off into the sunset.
posted by snsranch at 5:12 PM on March 27

I liked the amnesty idea. "Aye" I guess.

I got a crazy idea. Take it or leave it. Currently, the main page points people to "Featured" "Favorited" and "Playlisted" tracks. Perhaps pointing to the latest challenge tracks below the others could help create incentive to participate.
posted by dagosto at 5:24 PM on March 27

Huh. That's not a bad idea at all, dagosto. I'll run it by pb.
posted by cortex at 6:05 PM on March 27

Yeah, dagosto's idea is cool. Hire that man!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:21 PM on March 27

I suppose I could take some time off from learning saxophone in exchange for a chance to totally break metafilter.
posted by dagosto at 7:13 PM on March 27

Really - only 5? Feels like more - I guess I just notice them more.

The 2-chord challenge is a cool idea.
posted by awfurby at 8:14 PM on March 27

Aww, crap, I shouldn't have come here and seen this thread. If I hadn't, I would have finished my spy music this weekend. But now I might put it off some more. I'll vote "enormous flaming marsupials", I guess.

Two chords sounds cool. And while we're on chord-based challenges, how about all the chords--all 24 major and minor triads, that is?
posted by equalpants at 1:26 AM on March 28

I also like dagosto's idea, btw.

My vote is Nay, but not because I don't like the idea of amnesty... more that I just think we still haven't hit on some of the most exciting challenge ideas yet (not that I have those ideas, but I do believe they're out there, lurking, waiting to strike). We've had a few wildly successful ones and I believe we can have more.

I love the two chord idea, and like chococat says, it really sounds like a challenge. Awhile back I suggested one where you have to post the very first song you ever wrote - it can be a 'cover', if you want (a re-recording with your current chops), which could also in theory double as incentive for timid folks to finally post a song here.

Another option is to do something totally nuts for a challenge, like, I dunno, write some music and then record a lyric track over it, with no forethought, just the first words that pop into your head, no cheating by doing it twice.
posted by ORthey at 3:53 PM on March 28

I vote aye, but only because if I have another week I can sneak my digital recorder into my next sacred harp singing.
posted by The White Hat at 10:04 PM on March 28

Two chord music and the 'record a track then improv over it' technique are pretty much the only way I ever record anything because I'm a total amateur. I thusly have hard drives full of half-baked nonsense dating from the year dot. I'd like a challenge that forces me to actually craft something properly and then record it well - but I'm figuring that's not so much fun for the many mefites who already know what they're doing.

So! how about a 'personal challenge' challenge - you set it yourself - the one thing you'd find really difficult/ridiculous/terrifying, and report back with the results?
posted by freya_lamb at 2:12 PM on March 29 [1 favorite has favorites]

P.s. Isn't Amnesty just general MeMu? You can always post stuff that was inspired by any challenge at any time and state as such, but it isn't tagged with the actual challenge because the challenge is to have completed said masterpiece by the cutoff date...

I have never typed the word challenge so many times in one day before
posted by freya_lamb at 2:15 PM on March 29

pb has made the "Recent Challenge Tracks" thing happen on the Music front page. Go pb!
posted by cortex at 10:32 AM on March 30

Yay pb!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:20 PM on March 30

Hey y'all... well with April almost upon us, I'm tallying up the votes. Among people that actually came out and voted 'yes' or 'no' (LIKE THE GADDAM POST ASKED FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! /end of rant) the votes came out like this:

in favor of Amnesty Month extension: 3
against: 6

So there you have it! There'll be new Challenges up this month.

I'm gonna drop the Lyric Challenge for awhile at least, though. Just doesn't seem to be enough interest in it. Which kinda leads me to another conclusion, the categorization of Challenges (Lyric, Music, Wildcard) is getting dropped, too. Those categories don't really mean much, when it comes down to it. So I'm just going to go with throwing out one or two Challenges per month for a little while, and see how that goes. Sound good?

I'm sending these to Jessamyn as usual, so she can post them in the proper place, but, what the hell, as long as I'm here, lemme just go ahead and post the April Challenges:

1. make a song using only two chords (suggested upthread by cortex)
2. make song for a very specific occasion, i.e. a song for chopping onions, or a song for putting on your socks, or a song for turning the ignition in your car... (suggested upthread by abc123xyzinfinity)
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:47 PM on March 30

Excellent, and I agree, we don't need not stinkeeng categories!
posted by snsranch at 6:04 PM on March 31

Two chords? I'm lost. What's a chord?
posted by Hoopo at 6:40 PM on March 31 [1 favorite has favorites]

TWENTY BUCKS, SAME AS IN TOWNSHEND
posted by cortex at 10:36 PM on March 31 [1 favorite has favorites]

TWENTY BUCKS, SAME AS IN TOWNSHEND
UKP surely?
posted by awfurby at 10:48 PM on March 31

Touche.
posted by cortex at 8:20 AM on April 1

Hey there. Just uploaded a song for this month's 2-chord challenge. It seems like the challenge page still says "Amnesty" and a March 31st deadline though, so I hope I didn't jump the gun.
Also, I had a suggestion for the challenge page. Underneath where it says the challenge number and deadline, I thought you could also add the specific tags for that challenge, in addition to the standard "mefimusicchallenge" one. I always have to look at a few submissions to figure out what the standard tag nomenclature should be when there's a few different challenge options for the month.
So it would look like this:

MeFi Music Challenge 19
Submission deadline: April
Tags: mefimusicchallenge, twochords

or whatever the appropriate tags are.
Hmm?
posted by chococat at 3:09 PM on April 3

Nah, chococat, you didn't jump the gun... I sent the April Challenges to the Mod In Charge, but it may have fallen behind the desk or something. Should be up soon. And the tag suggestion is a good one. They may not be there this month, but in fact many of the recent Challenges have included suggested specific tags to use, if you'll check back through some of the past Challenges. But I've sometimes forgotten to do that, so from now on I'll try to remember.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:57 AM on April 4

Cool, thanks!
posted by chococat at 7:55 AM on April 4

Damn. The second challenge this month describes most of the songs I've already written!
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 3:06 PM on April 13

The two-chord challenge is going really great. The concept is interesting and easy to grasp even for people who don't play music, so I think it'd be neat to sidebar it on the front MeFi page at the end of the month (with a link to this page, I guess?).
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 1:47 AM on April 17