September Challenge - Uncool
August 29, 2011 4:18 PM
Your challenge for September will be UNCOOL.
Cool is used so often as a term of approval that we tend to lose sight of the fact that it implies coldness, distance, lack of engagement. Sunglasses that hide the eyes. Movie stars walking away from explosions and never looking back.
So your September challenge is to lose your cool, and do something uncool. The more deeply uncool the better. Write a soppy love song, or a kids' tune. Cover Neil Diamond, Supertramp, or THE LADY IN RED. Record a whistling song, or yodel. Unleash your inner progressive rock God/Goddess.
Whatever.
Points will be deducted for irony and added for video.
PS excellent work on the riffology challenge, folks. A bumper crop.
posted by unSane (63 comments total)
2 users marked this as a favorite
Cool is used so often as a term of approval that we tend to lose sight of the fact that it implies coldness, distance, lack of engagement. Sunglasses that hide the eyes. Movie stars walking away from explosions and never looking back.
So your September challenge is to lose your cool, and do something uncool. The more deeply uncool the better. Write a soppy love song, or a kids' tune. Cover Neil Diamond, Supertramp, or THE LADY IN RED. Record a whistling song, or yodel. Unleash your inner progressive rock God/Goddess.
Whatever.
Points will be deducted for irony and added for video.
PS excellent work on the riffology challenge, folks. A bumper crop.
Could I just resubmit other songs I've done, exactly the same but with a new pan flute track?
Also, I may have just hit on a new oblique metaphor for academic publishing.
posted by Beardman at 5:43 PM on August 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
Also, I may have just hit on a new oblique metaphor for academic publishing.
posted by Beardman at 5:43 PM on August 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
Covering a Neil is tempting... whether Diamond or...
SEDAKA!
BWAAAH-hahahahahahahahaha!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:13 AM on August 31, 2011
SEDAKA!
BWAAAH-hahahahahahahahaha!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:13 AM on August 31, 2011
Covering a Neil is tempting... whether Diamond or...
SEDAKA!
Jesus. I'm really shaken at the thought of that. You poor old sod flapjax. Horrible. Just...fucking.... HORRIBLE. The bakelite persona. The high-pitched whine. The ingratiating rictus grin. The relentless cheeriness and/or maudlin self-pity. Oh and the sweaters, don't forget the chunky knitted sweaters. And the comb-over hair. We'll demand the full thing my friend, the full thing. A vid is de rigueur....
I'm going to have to ask for spiritual guidance from my peers on this one. Alternatively, I'll just ask you bunch of disreputable toe-rags. What do you think: Barry Manilow? Roger Whittaker? Rolf Harris? How about Phil Collins? Andrew Lloyd Knob-end? Maybe one of those strange US bands named after a state or city: Boston, Kansas....er.......ummm......O'Fuckit, Nantucket? Or, and I'm really plumbing the depths now, Bruce Springsteen?
posted by MajorDundee at 1:18 PM on August 31, 2011
Cover Neil Diamond
Wait, Neil Diamond is uncool now?
posted by DiscountDeity at 2:02 PM on August 31, 2011
Wait, Neil Diamond is uncool now?
posted by DiscountDeity at 2:02 PM on August 31, 2011
Your time has finally come!
And, ironically, that makes me cool, and thus ineligible. Drat.
posted by davejay at 2:34 PM on August 31, 2011
And, ironically, that makes me cool, and thus ineligible. Drat.
posted by davejay at 2:34 PM on August 31, 2011
Neil Sedaka is really great. "Breaking Up Is Hard To Do" is the perfect pop song. I am not kidding in the slightest. You people make me sad.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 2:54 PM on August 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 2:54 PM on August 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
Guess I'll have to come up with a compelling accordion arrangement of Sweet Caroline.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:47 PM on August 31, 2011
posted by uncleozzy at 4:47 PM on August 31, 2011
Good times never seemed so good.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:55 PM on August 31, 2011
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:55 PM on August 31, 2011
Skipping the Neil Sedaka controversy, I'm on the fence, may I add Tiny Tim, Dick Van Dyke (picking on him for 'is 'orrible fecking oxcent), EVERY solo venture by David Lee Roth, and God and Mefites forgive me, but maybe ZAPPA too? (Waiting for lightning to strike) Seems like dork rock to me. I love Zappa, but isn't it dorky?
posted by snsranch at 5:27 PM on August 31, 2011
posted by snsranch at 5:27 PM on August 31, 2011
This has Air Supply written all over it.
posted by NemesisVex at 10:19 PM on August 31, 2011
posted by NemesisVex at 10:19 PM on August 31, 2011
Neil Sedaka is really great. "Breaking Up Is Hard To Do " is the perfect pop song. I am not kidding in the slightest. You people make me sad.
Wouldn't disagree that BUIHTD is a great pop song Karlos. It's just that the Sedaka version always makes me think that this is how my Geography teacher would have sounded if s/he (we weren't entirely sure) had got up at the school concert and done a "turn". Sedaka as a writer - check. Sedaka as a performer - next!!
I love Zappa, but isn't it dorky?
I have a similar take on Zappa sns. I like the idea of Zappa. I loved and admired his "fuck you" attitude to the music biz. And some of his song titles, lyrics etc are lol - even the name of his production operation/label cracks me up "The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen", if memory serves. But the music..........hmmm......nah. A bit ponderous, nit-picky, melody-light and generally too smartarsed for its own good. Which is a shame given that he was such a spot-on geezer, but there it is.
posted by MajorDundee at 12:39 AM on September 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Wouldn't disagree that BUIHTD is a great pop song Karlos. It's just that the Sedaka version always makes me think that this is how my Geography teacher would have sounded if s/he (we weren't entirely sure) had got up at the school concert and done a "turn". Sedaka as a writer - check. Sedaka as a performer - next!!
I love Zappa, but isn't it dorky?
I have a similar take on Zappa sns. I like the idea of Zappa. I loved and admired his "fuck you" attitude to the music biz. And some of his song titles, lyrics etc are lol - even the name of his production operation/label cracks me up "The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen", if memory serves. But the music..........hmmm......nah. A bit ponderous, nit-picky, melody-light and generally too smartarsed for its own good. Which is a shame given that he was such a spot-on geezer, but there it is.
posted by MajorDundee at 12:39 AM on September 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Zappa, Paul and Storm, Jonathan Coulton, They Might Be Giants...nerd rock is "uncool," right?
posted by askmeaboutLOOM at 12:41 AM on September 1, 2011
posted by askmeaboutLOOM at 12:41 AM on September 1, 2011
I'm thinking of a rendition of Paul and Storm's Nugget Man. What's less cool than chicken nuggets?
posted by askmeaboutLOOM at 12:43 AM on September 1, 2011
posted by askmeaboutLOOM at 12:43 AM on September 1, 2011
Dundee, you have summed up perfectly my feelings about Zappa.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:10 AM on September 1, 2011
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:10 AM on September 1, 2011
ok, both neils, sedaka and diamond, were on occasion, possessed by genuine coolness
neil diamond - cherry, cherry
and neil sedaka wrote this for the globetrotters - beach music, anyone?
and fred neil - this was cool - cool enough for jefferson airplane and the animals (my vinyl copy of greatest hits vol 2 says frank zappa did the arrangement)
i heard this on the radio on my way home - i feel like a child
(not sure what that has to do with anything, but ...)
but were the cowsills cool or uncool?
what about spanky and our gang's cover of everybody's talkin'
hmm, and then there's sergio mendes and brazil '66 doing a beatles song
my suggestion - one has to delve deep into the pop music of the 60s to even understand what the parameters of what cool vs uncool might be
but i may know nothing - god, i even like richard harris - yes, it's THAT song you hate - and they played it constantly on AM radio when i was growing up and i liked it then and i STILL like it
hmm, every mother's son?
susan christie? - how about when the box tops, featuring alex chilton, do it?
tim rose?
lesley gore?
the four seasons?
cool or uncool - the eternal question ...
posted by pyramid termite at 11:14 PM on September 1, 2011
neil diamond - cherry, cherry
and neil sedaka wrote this for the globetrotters - beach music, anyone?
and fred neil - this was cool - cool enough for jefferson airplane and the animals (my vinyl copy of greatest hits vol 2 says frank zappa did the arrangement)
i heard this on the radio on my way home - i feel like a child
(not sure what that has to do with anything, but ...)
but were the cowsills cool or uncool?
what about spanky and our gang's cover of everybody's talkin'
hmm, and then there's sergio mendes and brazil '66 doing a beatles song
my suggestion - one has to delve deep into the pop music of the 60s to even understand what the parameters of what cool vs uncool might be
but i may know nothing - god, i even like richard harris - yes, it's THAT song you hate - and they played it constantly on AM radio when i was growing up and i liked it then and i STILL like it
hmm, every mother's son?
susan christie? - how about when the box tops, featuring alex chilton, do it?
tim rose?
lesley gore?
the four seasons?
cool or uncool - the eternal question ...
posted by pyramid termite at 11:14 PM on September 1, 2011
how about when the box tops, featuring alex chilton, do it?
I've always been intrigued by how Alex Chilton came to be seen as ubercool. Oddly enough, I was listening to Big Star's Radio City only the other day in the car - desperately trying to like it (for the umpteenth time) - and I couldn't help remarking to myself what a horrible record it is in production terms. So much compression on it that it's almost creating its own black hole. It makes my ears tired after a few minutes. And it's weird for other reasons too - September Gurls, which is such an incredible standout and such a brilliant track, feels like an imposter written by a different band. In my view it's really not that great an album and it's no surprise to me that it didn't sell much on first release (even taking account of excuses about Stax not promoting it etc etc). Just an opinion guys, just an opinion....I'm always willing to spook a sacred cow or poke a stick into a wasps' nest, just to see what happens.....
posted by MajorDundee at 2:45 AM on September 2, 2011
I've always been intrigued by how Alex Chilton came to be seen as ubercool. Oddly enough, I was listening to Big Star's Radio City only the other day in the car - desperately trying to like it (for the umpteenth time) - and I couldn't help remarking to myself what a horrible record it is in production terms. So much compression on it that it's almost creating its own black hole. It makes my ears tired after a few minutes. And it's weird for other reasons too - September Gurls, which is such an incredible standout and such a brilliant track, feels like an imposter written by a different band. In my view it's really not that great an album and it's no surprise to me that it didn't sell much on first release (even taking account of excuses about Stax not promoting it etc etc). Just an opinion guys, just an opinion....I'm always willing to spook a sacred cow or poke a stick into a wasps' nest, just to see what happens.....
posted by MajorDundee at 2:45 AM on September 2, 2011
I've always been intrigued by how Alex Chilton came to be seen as ubercool.
me, too - especially as in my book, he did nothing cooler than his top 40 singles with the boxtops although the albums were pretty spotty
third/sister lovers is probably the most interesting big star record - but i've always been puzzled by the sort of revisionist approach to rock history, where one picks obscurities that didn't make it and focuses on them instead of the bands that did make it - or other obscurities that are also worth a listen
the first crazy horse album for example
posted by pyramid termite at 7:15 AM on September 2, 2011
me, too - especially as in my book, he did nothing cooler than his top 40 singles with the boxtops although the albums were pretty spotty
third/sister lovers is probably the most interesting big star record - but i've always been puzzled by the sort of revisionist approach to rock history, where one picks obscurities that didn't make it and focuses on them instead of the bands that did make it - or other obscurities that are also worth a listen
the first crazy horse album for example
posted by pyramid termite at 7:15 AM on September 2, 2011
(The inspiration for this was a European friend I've been backing at a couple of bars recently who LOVES LOVES LOVES everything cheesy, with that sincere love of cheese that only continental Europeans can muster. As a result I've been knee deep in cheese and as always it makes you realize how well done it is.)
posted by unSane at 11:31 AM on September 2, 2011
posted by unSane at 11:31 AM on September 2, 2011
Re Neil Diamond you only have to play the first few bars of 'Sweet Caroline' at a bar any time after about 11pm for a riot to break out.
posted by unSane at 11:32 AM on September 2, 2011
posted by unSane at 11:32 AM on September 2, 2011
I've always been intrigued by how Alex Chilton came to be seen as ubercool.
90s revisionism mostly. Big Star was/were always horribly patchy, but September Gurls/Thirteen/El Goodo make up for everything.
posted by unSane at 11:33 AM on September 2, 2011
90s revisionism mostly. Big Star was/were always horribly patchy, but September Gurls/Thirteen/El Goodo make up for everything.
posted by unSane at 11:33 AM on September 2, 2011
An all NEIL challenge has definite possibilities:
Neil Diamond
Neil Young
Neil Sedaka
Fred Neil
Neil Armstrong (instrumental stuff that samples his first-man-on-the-moon moments)
posted by philip-random at 1:27 PM on September 2, 2011
Neil Diamond
Neil Young
Neil Sedaka
Fred Neil
Neil Armstrong (instrumental stuff that samples his first-man-on-the-moon moments)
posted by philip-random at 1:27 PM on September 2, 2011
but i've always been puzzled by the sort of revisionist approach to rock history, where one picks obscurities that didn't make it and focuses on them instead of the bands that did make it
Not that much of a puzzle really. This basically relates to the wanker's desperate need for exclusivity. Which is, wrongly, equated with "cool". It's a sort of playground-level one-upmanship.
Sadly, many carry that mindset into adulthood where it's plundered and pandered to by cynical labels. They reissue all sorts of crap with the obligatory "previously unreleased" tracks across half a dozen cds at a premium price. Accompanied, sometimes, by "previously unseen" grainy photos and an "exclusive" DVD featuring addled survivors trying and failing to remember who played sitar on track 12 of cd 5. And all because the accountants are in charge and no-one wants to take any chances on new material/bands that might show up as a slight negative on the Project Risk Register. It's far cheaper and less risky, therefore, to buy a few mouldering masters by an obscure 70's band, pay some PR outfit a few quid to sprinkle some fairy dust about how brilliant and sadly overlooked they actually were (even better if one or two of the band have died), get a feature in MOJO (the salaried, middle-aged "rocker" bible), and then sit back and count the cash. So revisionism is, in many ways, the music biz accountant's wet dream. RIP Rock & Roll: 195? - 197? Christ, I'm cynical.......
posted by MajorDundee at 2:02 PM on September 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
Not that much of a puzzle really. This basically relates to the wanker's desperate need for exclusivity. Which is, wrongly, equated with "cool". It's a sort of playground-level one-upmanship.
Sadly, many carry that mindset into adulthood where it's plundered and pandered to by cynical labels. They reissue all sorts of crap with the obligatory "previously unreleased" tracks across half a dozen cds at a premium price. Accompanied, sometimes, by "previously unseen" grainy photos and an "exclusive" DVD featuring addled survivors trying and failing to remember who played sitar on track 12 of cd 5. And all because the accountants are in charge and no-one wants to take any chances on new material/bands that might show up as a slight negative on the Project Risk Register. It's far cheaper and less risky, therefore, to buy a few mouldering masters by an obscure 70's band, pay some PR outfit a few quid to sprinkle some fairy dust about how brilliant and sadly overlooked they actually were (even better if one or two of the band have died), get a feature in MOJO (the salaried, middle-aged "rocker" bible), and then sit back and count the cash. So revisionism is, in many ways, the music biz accountant's wet dream. RIP Rock & Roll: 195? - 197? Christ, I'm cynical.......
posted by MajorDundee at 2:02 PM on September 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
but i've always been puzzled by the sort of revisionist approach to rock history, where one picks obscurities that didn't make it and focuses on them instead of the bands that did make it
With Big Star in particular, part of the focus is because they didn't "make it" in any commercial sense but they turned out to be tremendously influential, with bands like REM, the dB's, Matthew Sweet, and the Bangles being just a few limbs of the family tree.
When you go backwards from those bands and keep finding the same "unheard of" group it's kind of fascinating.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 3:26 PM on September 2, 2011
With Big Star in particular, part of the focus is because they didn't "make it" in any commercial sense but they turned out to be tremendously influential, with bands like REM, the dB's, Matthew Sweet, and the Bangles being just a few limbs of the family tree.
When you go backwards from those bands and keep finding the same "unheard of" group it's kind of fascinating.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 3:26 PM on September 2, 2011
Devastatingly well put as usual, Dundee, that is, your comment just above. I find myself, on the whole, agreeing strongly with you. That said, I think you'd also have to agree that there is a lot of music out there that, although it didn't reach a big audience back in its day, is nonetheless worthy of our current attention. So I have to say that, at the end of the day, I'm glad that there are those folks out there seeking to make some of it available for modern ears. Sure, there's plenty of crap, but there are jewels here and there amid the dust and detritus, and it's often a joy to find those.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:02 PM on September 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:02 PM on September 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
it's very easy for me to argue that Can are the most essential recording outfit of the late 1960s-early/mid-70s. Not my personal favorite but definitely a serious contender when it comes to influence and, more important, long term listenability. Their stuff just doesn't go stale. Yet, short of a few misfits, loony tunes and squalid criminals who were indeed rabid for them, they were virtually unknown in their time, particularly in North America where they never even played a gig. The first time I ever even heard of them was in 1981 when Brian Eno name-checked Holger Czukay in an interview promoting My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts.
So, Major Dundee, I gotta disagree with your more or less cross-the-board dismissal of bands/artists that didn't make it in their time. Which is not to take away from those that did ... except maybe Peter Frampton. What was that about?
posted by philip-random at 6:09 PM on September 2, 2011
So, Major Dundee, I gotta disagree with your more or less cross-the-board dismissal of bands/artists that didn't make it in their time. Which is not to take away from those that did ... except maybe Peter Frampton. What was that about?
posted by philip-random at 6:09 PM on September 2, 2011
What was that about?
It was that talk-box guitar thingy.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:15 PM on September 2, 2011
It was that talk-box guitar thingy.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:15 PM on September 2, 2011
6 million records worth?
posted by philip-random at 7:04 PM on September 2, 2011
posted by philip-random at 7:04 PM on September 2, 2011
Oh for chrissake, do I have to plug the squeezebox into a talkbox now?
posted by uncleozzy at 8:09 PM on September 2, 2011
posted by uncleozzy at 8:09 PM on September 2, 2011
Oh for chrissake, do I have to plug the squeezebox into a talkbox now?
You certainly do now.
posted by unSane at 9:28 PM on September 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
You certainly do now.
posted by unSane at 9:28 PM on September 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
When you go backwards from those bands and keep finding the same "unheard of" group it's kind of fascinating.
but really - was there anything that big star did that wasn't implicit in the byrds, the beatles, the stones, the kinks, neil young, the velvets, whatever?
REM can claim all they want that big star was influential on them - but come on, they owe a lot to the byrds and the velvets, don't they?
---
it's very easy for me to argue that Can are the most essential recording outfit of the late 1960s-early/mid-70s.
i missed can during the 70s and didn't find out about them until the 90s
i was a much poorer musician for it, too
posted by pyramid termite at 10:32 PM on September 2, 2011
but really - was there anything that big star did that wasn't implicit in the byrds, the beatles, the stones, the kinks, neil young, the velvets, whatever?
REM can claim all they want that big star was influential on them - but come on, they owe a lot to the byrds and the velvets, don't they?
---
it's very easy for me to argue that Can are the most essential recording outfit of the late 1960s-early/mid-70s.
i missed can during the 70s and didn't find out about them until the 90s
i was a much poorer musician for it, too
posted by pyramid termite at 10:32 PM on September 2, 2011
and big star influenced the bangles? - i'm a huge fan of their first ep and lp and i'm not hearing it - what i'm hearing is a group that had big ears for a lot of 60s pop and vocal harmonies and a pretty deep knowledge of them
oh, maybe "dover beach" - but frankly, that beats big star to pieces ... damn, i have to listen to that now - so do you
posted by pyramid termite at 10:42 PM on September 2, 2011
oh, maybe "dover beach" - but frankly, that beats big star to pieces ... damn, i have to listen to that now - so do you
posted by pyramid termite at 10:42 PM on September 2, 2011
the jangly thing that got into so-called "New Wave" via REM and a few others is directly traceable to Big Star who, though they may have pulled a fair deal of their sound from The Byrds, also picked up a fair bit of Love and Spirit ... and The Box Tops for whom Alex Chilton sang, for Christ's sake.
And then there's the Replacements without whom modern so-called Indie would be inconceivable, themselves inconceivable without the likes of Alex Chilton and Big Star.
posted by philip-random at 11:13 PM on September 2, 2011
And then there's the Replacements without whom modern so-called Indie would be inconceivable, themselves inconceivable without the likes of Alex Chilton and Big Star.
posted by philip-random at 11:13 PM on September 2, 2011
Sure, there's plenty of crap, but there are jewels here and there amid the dust and detritus, and it's often a joy to find those.
Couldn't agree more flapjax - my comments above were rather whisky-fuelled and, on revision (heh), perhaps a bit swivel-eyed and finger-pointy. One album that fits the "pearls in the mud" bill for me, and one I picked up in a recent HMV sale for £3, is Donovan's "A Gift From A Flower To A Garden". It's overly-long (would have been better as a single album) and frequently embarrassingly twee and self-indugent, but there are some lovely tracks on it and the recording quality - particularly the acoustic guitar sound - is really excellent. Redolent of gentler, kinder, more whimsical times (or, at least, that's the impression created - the music biz was probably just as venal and grasping as it is now). So.......yeah........
And then there's the Replacements without whom modern so-called Indie would be inconceivable, themselves inconceivable without the likes of Alex Chilton and Big Star .
See....they're another one of these "huh??" outfits for me. I have a "best of" by the Replacements that's so far failed to whet my whistle - it's all a bit "so what?". What would you recommend as a way in?
posted by MajorDundee at 2:10 AM on September 3, 2011
Couldn't agree more flapjax - my comments above were rather whisky-fuelled and, on revision (heh), perhaps a bit swivel-eyed and finger-pointy. One album that fits the "pearls in the mud" bill for me, and one I picked up in a recent HMV sale for £3, is Donovan's "A Gift From A Flower To A Garden". It's overly-long (would have been better as a single album) and frequently embarrassingly twee and self-indugent, but there are some lovely tracks on it and the recording quality - particularly the acoustic guitar sound - is really excellent. Redolent of gentler, kinder, more whimsical times (or, at least, that's the impression created - the music biz was probably just as venal and grasping as it is now). So.......yeah........
And then there's the Replacements without whom modern so-called Indie would be inconceivable, themselves inconceivable without the likes of Alex Chilton and Big Star .
See....they're another one of these "huh??" outfits for me. I have a "best of" by the Replacements that's so far failed to whet my whistle - it's all a bit "so what?". What would you recommend as a way in?
posted by MajorDundee at 2:10 AM on September 3, 2011
damn, i have to listen to that now - so do you
Hey, you were right, I did!
Have you heard this?
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 2:12 AM on September 3, 2011
Hey, you were right, I did!
Have you heard this?
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 2:12 AM on September 3, 2011
yeah, sounds like the byrds could have done that
or tom petty
posted by pyramid termite at 6:20 AM on September 3, 2011
or tom petty
posted by pyramid termite at 6:20 AM on September 3, 2011
See....they're another one of these "huh??" outfits for me. I have a "best of" by the Replacements that's so far failed to whet my whistle - it's all a bit "so what?". What would you recommend as a way in?
Are we talking about who we like, or who's had impact? I'm with you on the Replacements. I love some of their songs but I've only ever owned one of their albums, and that I never listened to much in its entirety. Yet I don't think you can talk about where some of the best music now has come from without including them in the discussion.
posted by philip-random at 10:14 AM on September 3, 2011
Are we talking about who we like, or who's had impact? I'm with you on the Replacements. I love some of their songs but I've only ever owned one of their albums, and that I never listened to much in its entirety. Yet I don't think you can talk about where some of the best music now has come from without including them in the discussion.
posted by philip-random at 10:14 AM on September 3, 2011
I think the Replacements had a lot of influence Stateside but next to none in the UK. I was very plugged in to the UK indie scene in the late 80s and early 90s and I honestly didn't know anyone who even owned a Replacements recording, and they were never talked about in my presence. It was all Television/Ramones/Blondie/Big Star/VU/Iggy Pop etc, at least until grunge happened.
posted by unSane at 11:12 AM on September 3, 2011
posted by unSane at 11:12 AM on September 3, 2011
I think the Replacements had a lot of influence Stateside but next to none in the UK. I was very plugged in to the UK indie scene in the late 80s and early 90s and I honestly didn't know anyone who even owned a Replacements recording, and they were never talked about in my presence. It was all Television/Ramones/Blondie/Big Star/VU/Iggy Pop etc, at least until grunge happened.
Spot on unSane - exactly as I recall it too. Mind you - grunge passed me by (babies came along).
A further thought I had on this "cool" issue is whether the people who say they were influenced by, say, Iggy Pop, actually were influenced by him or whether they're just citing the usual cool suspects as a way of enhancing their own status. It fascinates me to speculate that this whole rock 'n' roll cool schtick is, at base, built on total 24-carat bullshit i.e. people say they're influenced by x or y (but actually aren't really, or not significantly) and then fans go out and buy the records by x or y and force themselves to like them because they too want to be cool, and then they perpetuate the myth by force-feeding this stuff to their friends and/or the following generation. And all put through the catalystic converter that is the music biz media and PR machinery. I mean, all these people who say that the likes of The Stooges were a major influence on them. Really? I mean really really?? I bet ABBA were a bigger influnce on pop music than The Stooges ever were. But you'll not find many music biz hipsters admitting to that...... good God no..
posted by MajorDundee at 2:24 AM on September 4, 2011
Spot on unSane - exactly as I recall it too. Mind you - grunge passed me by (babies came along).
A further thought I had on this "cool" issue is whether the people who say they were influenced by, say, Iggy Pop, actually were influenced by him or whether they're just citing the usual cool suspects as a way of enhancing their own status. It fascinates me to speculate that this whole rock 'n' roll cool schtick is, at base, built on total 24-carat bullshit i.e. people say they're influenced by x or y (but actually aren't really, or not significantly) and then fans go out and buy the records by x or y and force themselves to like them because they too want to be cool, and then they perpetuate the myth by force-feeding this stuff to their friends and/or the following generation. And all put through the catalystic converter that is the music biz media and PR machinery. I mean, all these people who say that the likes of The Stooges were a major influence on them. Really? I mean really really?? I bet ABBA were a bigger influnce on pop music than The Stooges ever were. But you'll not find many music biz hipsters admitting to that...... good God no..
posted by MajorDundee at 2:24 AM on September 4, 2011
catalytic. Catalystic is probably something religious. An incantation perhaps. Involving smoke and mirrors. And mumbling. Don't forget the mumbling.
posted by MajorDundee at 2:27 AM on September 4, 2011
posted by MajorDundee at 2:27 AM on September 4, 2011
I bet ABBA were a bigger influnce on pop music than The Stooges ever were.
Ha ha! Well said.
I must admit the biggest influence on me is always the last thing I listened to.
posted by unSane at 5:29 AM on September 4, 2011
Ha ha! Well said.
I must admit the biggest influence on me is always the last thing I listened to.
posted by unSane at 5:29 AM on September 4, 2011
The other thing is that English rock musicians are notoriously such piss-poor players that even if they tried to emulate the Velvets, for example, they'd sound absolutely nothing like them.
posted by unSane at 5:31 AM on September 4, 2011
posted by unSane at 5:31 AM on September 4, 2011
(The Major is the exception that proves the rule. I am not).
posted by unSane at 5:32 AM on September 4, 2011
posted by unSane at 5:32 AM on September 4, 2011
I mean, all these people who say that the likes of The Stooges were a major influence on them. Really? I mean really really??
they made an impression on me when i ran across their records in '75 - being from michigan, they're part of our local heritage
i didn't hear about big star until many years later and wasn't real moved by them - and i always felt that the replacements were an inconsistent band and overrated - although unsatisfised is great and they did some other good ones
posted by pyramid termite at 6:25 AM on September 4, 2011
they made an impression on me when i ran across their records in '75 - being from michigan, they're part of our local heritage
i didn't hear about big star until many years later and wasn't real moved by them - and i always felt that the replacements were an inconsistent band and overrated - although unsatisfised is great and they did some other good ones
posted by pyramid termite at 6:25 AM on September 4, 2011
oh hey i'm supposed to post these things to the challenge page i guess
posted by cortex at 10:21 AM on September 4, 2011
posted by cortex at 10:21 AM on September 4, 2011
Speaking of The Neil, I heard Song Sung Blue in a restaurant the other day and I may have to record it and I may have to try and recruit a whole bunch of people to sing along with it.
posted by cortex at 10:26 AM on September 4, 2011
posted by cortex at 10:26 AM on September 4, 2011
I mean, all these people who say that the likes of The Stooges were a major influence on them. Really? I mean really really??
they made an impression on me when i ran across their records in '75 - being from michigan, they're part of our local heritage
My theory is that, outside of the Motor city area, nobody (except maybe a couple dozen hardcore cool-as-fuck junkies who are long dead) actually loved the Stooges while they were current. Just look at the record sales. Negligible to the point of non-existent. I Wanna Be Your Dog didn't even chart as a single.
Come 1976-77-78, yeah, you could start to hear an influence. But at the time, 1969-74, nah. Folks were all wound up about Bowie, Led Zep and Elton John, and trying to figure out Yes lyrics.
I have met two people who claim they saw the Stooges back in the day. One owns a used record store and frankly, the man's a liar. The other, I do believe. Last I heard of him, he was living off the grid, somewhere in the coastal mountains of British Columbia, living off the land, killing grizzly bears with his bare hands.
posted by philip-random at 11:58 AM on September 4, 2011
they made an impression on me when i ran across their records in '75 - being from michigan, they're part of our local heritage
My theory is that, outside of the Motor city area, nobody (except maybe a couple dozen hardcore cool-as-fuck junkies who are long dead) actually loved the Stooges while they were current. Just look at the record sales. Negligible to the point of non-existent. I Wanna Be Your Dog didn't even chart as a single.
Come 1976-77-78, yeah, you could start to hear an influence. But at the time, 1969-74, nah. Folks were all wound up about Bowie, Led Zep and Elton John, and trying to figure out Yes lyrics.
I have met two people who claim they saw the Stooges back in the day. One owns a used record store and frankly, the man's a liar. The other, I do believe. Last I heard of him, he was living off the grid, somewhere in the coastal mountains of British Columbia, living off the land, killing grizzly bears with his bare hands.
posted by philip-random at 11:58 AM on September 4, 2011
Speaking of The Neil, I heard Song Sung Blue in a restaurant the other day and I may have to record it and I may have to try and recruit a whole bunch of people to sing along with it.
But will Fonzie and Helen Reddy be there? And Mayor Bradley?
posted by philip-random at 12:00 PM on September 4, 2011
But will Fonzie and Helen Reddy be there? And Mayor Bradley?
posted by philip-random at 12:00 PM on September 4, 2011
The other thing is that English rock musicians are notoriously such piss-poor players that even if they tried to emulate the Velvets, for example, they'd sound absolutely nothing like them.
That's perhaps true up to a point (Lord Copper) - I mean, I wouldn't know a B minor 7th if I was pissing on one.
I've actually not heard that said before. Interesting. Perhaps a legacy of the Brit punk movement in the 70's where any overt display of musicianship, or even bothering about such fripperies* as intonation, was to risk getting sent to the Gulag. It was partly borne of a twisted form of egalitariansm that, I should imagine, didn't quite catch on on the other side of the pond. The punk ethos had many virtues - and Christ knows there was some godawful smug prog shite around in the 70's that needed torching (ELP anyone?) - but its essentially reductive and reactionary values tended to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Rudimentary musical skills might be quaint and charming and "real rock and roll maaaaan", but they're ultimately self-limiting and creatively stultifying. In my view (!)
Bah humbug - I'm off to practice my old gittery.
*unintended but entirely apt pun!
posted by MajorDundee at 2:35 PM on September 4, 2011
That's perhaps true up to a point (Lord Copper) - I mean, I wouldn't know a B minor 7th if I was pissing on one.
I've actually not heard that said before. Interesting. Perhaps a legacy of the Brit punk movement in the 70's where any overt display of musicianship, or even bothering about such fripperies* as intonation, was to risk getting sent to the Gulag. It was partly borne of a twisted form of egalitariansm that, I should imagine, didn't quite catch on on the other side of the pond. The punk ethos had many virtues - and Christ knows there was some godawful smug prog shite around in the 70's that needed torching (ELP anyone?) - but its essentially reductive and reactionary values tended to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Rudimentary musical skills might be quaint and charming and "real rock and roll maaaaan", but they're ultimately self-limiting and creatively stultifying. In my view (!)
Bah humbug - I'm off to practice my old gittery.
*unintended but entirely apt pun!
posted by MajorDundee at 2:35 PM on September 4, 2011
An all NEIL challenge has definite possibilities:
Neil Diamond
Neil Young
Neil Sedaka
Fred Neil
Neil Armstrong (instrumental stuff that samples his first-man-on-the-moon moments)
ha, and Neil Innes, Neil Young, Vince Neil and, most of all, Neil.
posted by unSane at 6:00 PM on September 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Neil Diamond
Neil Young
Neil Sedaka
Fred Neil
Neil Armstrong (instrumental stuff that samples his first-man-on-the-moon moments)
ha, and Neil Innes, Neil Young, Vince Neil and, most of all, Neil.
posted by unSane at 6:00 PM on September 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Perhaps a legacy of the Brit punk movement in the 70's where any overt display of musicianship, or even bothering about such fripperies* as intonation, was to risk getting sent to the Gulag.
Yeah, very much that, plus the whole DIY ethos. Pre 80s music was relentlessly blues based but 80s/90s indie stuff was absolutely blues-free, which made a lot of guitar tuition completely redundant.
posted by unSane at 6:02 PM on September 4, 2011
Yeah, very much that, plus the whole DIY ethos. Pre 80s music was relentlessly blues based but 80s/90s indie stuff was absolutely blues-free, which made a lot of guitar tuition completely redundant.
posted by unSane at 6:02 PM on September 4, 2011
REM can claim all they want that big star was influential on them - but come on, they owe a lot to the byrds and the velvets, don't they?
Fair enough, but the Velvet Underground is sort of the ultimate example of the uncommercial band namechecked by so many people as influences that eventually they became canonical. And in my view this was the right move!
posted by escabeche at 8:56 PM on September 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Fair enough, but the Velvet Underground is sort of the ultimate example of the uncommercial band namechecked by so many people as influences that eventually they became canonical. And in my view this was the right move!
posted by escabeche at 8:56 PM on September 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Points will be deducted for irony
Late to the thread, but can you clarify this a little bit for me? What counts as irony whilst trying to intentionally be uncool?
Great theme for this month, BTW.
posted by Rykey at 3:39 PM on September 9, 2011
Late to the thread, but can you clarify this a little bit for me? What counts as irony whilst trying to intentionally be uncool?
Great theme for this month, BTW.
posted by Rykey at 3:39 PM on September 9, 2011
Late to the thread, but can you clarify this a little bit for me?
Yeah, sorry, did not mean to be opaque. What I meant was that I was hoping that folk would use the challenge as permission to do stuff they (perhaps secretly) loved that was generally considered uncool, rather than taking a kind of hipster approach and doing the musical equivalent of drinking PBR while secretly loathing the taste of it.
For example, I really think Supertramp's LOGICAL SONG is a great bit of songwriting and that will probably be my challenge entry, not note for note, but basically with a straight face. On the other hand, I think Barney the Dinosaur is some kind of horrible devil spawn and if I covered a Barney song it would not only be uncool but necessarily ironic because I could not do it with a straight face. It would be the musical equivalent of unusual facial hair. Which is not what I'm looking for.
Hope that helps! Think of this as permission to not worry about coolness.
posted by unSane at 7:56 PM on September 9, 2011
Yeah, sorry, did not mean to be opaque. What I meant was that I was hoping that folk would use the challenge as permission to do stuff they (perhaps secretly) loved that was generally considered uncool, rather than taking a kind of hipster approach and doing the musical equivalent of drinking PBR while secretly loathing the taste of it.
For example, I really think Supertramp's LOGICAL SONG is a great bit of songwriting and that will probably be my challenge entry, not note for note, but basically with a straight face. On the other hand, I think Barney the Dinosaur is some kind of horrible devil spawn and if I covered a Barney song it would not only be uncool but necessarily ironic because I could not do it with a straight face. It would be the musical equivalent of unusual facial hair. Which is not what I'm looking for.
Hope that helps! Think of this as permission to not worry about coolness.
posted by unSane at 7:56 PM on September 9, 2011
Huh, I was just thinking yesterday what a great song Logical Song is, how fun it would be to cover and how it's still so applicable...watch what you say they'll be calling you liberal, a radical, etc.
I was in grade 5 when that came out. I played the hell out of that album.
I don't think it's uncool at all.
posted by chococat at 8:52 PM on September 9, 2011
I was in grade 5 when that came out. I played the hell out of that album.
I don't think it's uncool at all.
posted by chococat at 8:52 PM on September 9, 2011
Supertramp is totally uncool AND "The Logical Song" is a great song.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 1:06 AM on September 10, 2011
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 1:06 AM on September 10, 2011
Thanks, unSane. I'm really hoping I get the time to do this.
posted by Rykey at 7:25 AM on September 10, 2011
posted by Rykey at 7:25 AM on September 10, 2011
Nothing wrong with Supertramp. I'm an unashamed fan and (cue ironic Johnny Rotten vocal) I DON'T CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRE. No kidding. Check out their masterpiece "Crime Of The Century". What a fabulous record. Hasn't dated at all. Thanks, in no small part, to the production and engineering skills of the wonderous Ken Scott - that's Mr Scott to you and me. Just listen to the sheer quality this record in every department. And then realise it was recorded between February and June 1974. That's correct - nineteen fucking seventy four. Before most of you were born.
If someone gave me the choice of being gifted a top line pro-tools rig with all the latest plug-ins and two weeks' free personal tuition, or a week in a scruffy analogue studio with Ken Scott at the helm I wouldn't think twice.
posted by MajorDundee at 10:57 AM on September 10, 2011
If someone gave me the choice of being gifted a top line pro-tools rig with all the latest plug-ins and two weeks' free personal tuition, or a week in a scruffy analogue studio with Ken Scott at the helm I wouldn't think twice.
posted by MajorDundee at 10:57 AM on September 10, 2011
BAM. Counting off the uncoolness: this is a music-hall (1) non-romantic duet (2) on the ukulele (3 - they're popular at the moment, but far from cool), which your parents almost certainly know well (4) and enjoy (5), including a whistling verse (6). Oh, and if you want to see me dressed up for no reason, here's a video as well.
(I would try to pass off the less-than-stellar production values as some kind of statement about coolness, but that's honestly more to do with the fact that when it's a Sunday evening and you're fairly tired, and you're wearing a rather hot and itchy polyester suit, and you've just screwed up eight consecutive takes doing something really stupid, you start not to care that much about whether you just played a G or a G7.)
posted by ZsigE at 3:19 PM on September 11, 2011
(I would try to pass off the less-than-stellar production values as some kind of statement about coolness, but that's honestly more to do with the fact that when it's a Sunday evening and you're fairly tired, and you're wearing a rather hot and itchy polyester suit, and you've just screwed up eight consecutive takes doing something really stupid, you start not to care that much about whether you just played a G or a G7.)
posted by ZsigE at 3:19 PM on September 11, 2011
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posted by davejay at 1:24 AM on August 30, 2011 [1 favorite]