Music idiot needs help with key changing
August 13, 2008 7:43 AM
Can someone help me learn to change the key of a song into something lower and thus more sing-able? For example, I'm trying to learn a song sung by a female artist, and can't hit some of the higher notes. What can i do to change the chords of the song so i can sing it.
This is coming from someone who has a non-existent knowledge of music theory and can only barely strum a few chords, so go easy because i may not know what I'm talking about. I've spent the last hour on google, but am utterly confused by all talk of fifths, chords wheels and keys etc.
I'm looking for a straight up simple solution that i can use on the go with minimal work. I'd rather not use a capo or weird tunings, but if it's a good solution then i'd give it a whirl.
The song is the Be Good Tanyas' arrangement of The House of the Rising Sun. I like how they've changed the melody and sung it higher and would like it that way. If you want to hear the song let me know.
Thanks hive!
posted by ashaw (15 comments total)
This is coming from someone who has a non-existent knowledge of music theory and can only barely strum a few chords, so go easy because i may not know what I'm talking about. I've spent the last hour on google, but am utterly confused by all talk of fifths, chords wheels and keys etc.
I'm looking for a straight up simple solution that i can use on the go with minimal work. I'd rather not use a capo or weird tunings, but if it's a good solution then i'd give it a whirl.
The song is the Be Good Tanyas' arrangement of The House of the Rising Sun. I like how they've changed the melody and sung it higher and would like it that way. If you want to hear the song let me know.
Thanks hive!
At least the first thirty seconds of the song on the itunes preview are the classic progression for the song: Am C D F. So, the low maintenance transpositions would be:
Em G A C
Well, that's the easiest one. Can you sing it in that key?
posted by umbú at 7:55 AM on August 13, 2008
Em G A C
Well, that's the easiest one. Can you sing it in that key?
posted by umbú at 7:55 AM on August 13, 2008
Jargon prologue: the keyword you're looking for here is 'transpose'; transposition from one key to another is pretty darned handy stuff, for reasons that have become pretty clear to you already.
You don't need to know anything about chord theory or the circle of fifths to do a brute force transposition from one key to another, so you're in luck there. You do need to be able to reckon your way through the 12-tone scale at at least a counting-on-your-fingers level, though, and you may also (depending on what "can only barely strum a few chords" means) have to learn some new chords to be able to play your transposed version, but those are both good things and neither requires a capo or retuning your guitar.
(Don't knock the capo, though; I used to shun it when I was learning guitar and I have come to see it instead as one of my best friends in the world when I need to transpose a song up. They're troopers, capos.)
So: how to transpose a song, the straight-up-simple-solution way (forgive me if some of this is more basic than you need):
1. You've got the chords for your song, right? A, Em, C7, etc? Good.
2. Figure out how far you want to transpose this sucker. Since transposing the whole thing might take you a little while, this is something you want to be pretty sure about before you start doing all your work.
Easy way to ballpark it: take the first chord of the song, use that as a starting point to start singing the song. Now, try a different chord, and start singing the song from there. If the original starts on, say, a G, try a D.
Be sure to hit the high and low notes in the song so you know you can sing comfortably in the new key. Can't hit a high note? Start over with a lower starting chord. (Maybe C instead of D.) Can't hit a low note? Try a higher starting chord. (Maybe E instead of D.) Repeat until you find a key that feels pretty good.
3. Figure out the interval between your original key and your target transposed key.
Let's say your original is in G and you found it pretty comfortable in E. E is three semitones—three half-steps—down from G. On a piano keyboard or your guitar fretboard, you can pick this out: G -> F# -> F -> E. So our interval is three steps down.
4. Shift every chord in the song by your transposition interval.
This is the counting-on-fingers bit. You're going to take every single chord in the song and shift it down by the number of steps you figured in step 3. G becomes E; Cm becomes Am (C -> B -> A# -> A); D7 becomes B7 (D -> C# -> C -> B).
Note that all you're doing is adjusting the root of the chords. The kind of chord it is—major or minor or 7th or diminished or sus4, etc—doesn't change.
Note also that you only need to reckon any given chord once; every G will turn into (in our example) an E, so you can figure out the first G and then go through and transpose the rest quick-like.
5. Yay! Song is transposed.
That's basically the whole enchilada. A few other notes:
- Transpose a few bars and test. Better to do the beginning of the song and find out you were wrong about the key than to do the whole damn thing and find out you were wrong.
- For guitar: if you want to raise the song by a few semitones instead of lowering it, seriously, consider capoing that mother. A significant change in key may make capoing less desirable since it'll shift the sound of the guitar considerably toward higher timbre what with less in the way of ringing low strings, but going up three or four steps isn't a big deal.
- If it sounds wrong after you transposed, it probably is wrong. Double check two things:
(a) Did you shift the chord right? Are you sure it's a C and not a C# or a B? Check your math.
(b) Is the new chord the same form as the old one? Did you turn a minor into a major (e.g. Cm into A) by accident? Did you turn a Gmaj7 into an E7? See the first note in step 4; this will whack out a song in subtle but ear-stabbing ways.
- Get a chord chart. (There are probably very good ones on the internet; I haven't looked in a while.) If you're newish to guitar or aren't good at figuring out an arbitrary chord yourself ("What the fuck is a C#aug?!"), you're going to want to have a reference, because just as accidentally changing the written chord form (see previous note) will mess up the sound of your transposed song, so will just playing the wrong form of a given chord because you don't know how to play the right one. Stubbornness and impatience are your enemies, here: learn the new chords that you don't know how to play.
- If you've got a little wiggle room in workable keys—maybe you try a few things and find you'd be comfortable singing the song anywhere between C and E—then you can certainly pick the key that's easiest to play in for you from among those possibilities. Maybe some of the chords in E are a total pain to you but the chords in D or C are comfortable? Try 'em all and see which you like. (And to bring back the capo: If it plays easiest in D but sounds best in E? Play it in D and capo 2 and it's the best of both worlds.)
posted by cortex at 8:19 AM on August 13, 2008 [4 favorites]
You don't need to know anything about chord theory or the circle of fifths to do a brute force transposition from one key to another, so you're in luck there. You do need to be able to reckon your way through the 12-tone scale at at least a counting-on-your-fingers level, though, and you may also (depending on what "can only barely strum a few chords" means) have to learn some new chords to be able to play your transposed version, but those are both good things and neither requires a capo or retuning your guitar.
(Don't knock the capo, though; I used to shun it when I was learning guitar and I have come to see it instead as one of my best friends in the world when I need to transpose a song up. They're troopers, capos.)
So: how to transpose a song, the straight-up-simple-solution way (forgive me if some of this is more basic than you need):
1. You've got the chords for your song, right? A, Em, C7, etc? Good.
2. Figure out how far you want to transpose this sucker. Since transposing the whole thing might take you a little while, this is something you want to be pretty sure about before you start doing all your work.
Easy way to ballpark it: take the first chord of the song, use that as a starting point to start singing the song. Now, try a different chord, and start singing the song from there. If the original starts on, say, a G, try a D.
Be sure to hit the high and low notes in the song so you know you can sing comfortably in the new key. Can't hit a high note? Start over with a lower starting chord. (Maybe C instead of D.) Can't hit a low note? Try a higher starting chord. (Maybe E instead of D.) Repeat until you find a key that feels pretty good.
3. Figure out the interval between your original key and your target transposed key.
Let's say your original is in G and you found it pretty comfortable in E. E is three semitones—three half-steps—down from G. On a piano keyboard or your guitar fretboard, you can pick this out: G -> F# -> F -> E. So our interval is three steps down.
4. Shift every chord in the song by your transposition interval.
This is the counting-on-fingers bit. You're going to take every single chord in the song and shift it down by the number of steps you figured in step 3. G becomes E; Cm becomes Am (C -> B -> A# -> A); D7 becomes B7 (D -> C# -> C -> B).
Note that all you're doing is adjusting the root of the chords. The kind of chord it is—major or minor or 7th or diminished or sus4, etc—doesn't change.
Note also that you only need to reckon any given chord once; every G will turn into (in our example) an E, so you can figure out the first G and then go through and transpose the rest quick-like.
5. Yay! Song is transposed.
That's basically the whole enchilada. A few other notes:
- Transpose a few bars and test. Better to do the beginning of the song and find out you were wrong about the key than to do the whole damn thing and find out you were wrong.
- For guitar: if you want to raise the song by a few semitones instead of lowering it, seriously, consider capoing that mother. A significant change in key may make capoing less desirable since it'll shift the sound of the guitar considerably toward higher timbre what with less in the way of ringing low strings, but going up three or four steps isn't a big deal.
- If it sounds wrong after you transposed, it probably is wrong. Double check two things:
(a) Did you shift the chord right? Are you sure it's a C and not a C# or a B? Check your math.
(b) Is the new chord the same form as the old one? Did you turn a minor into a major (e.g. Cm into A) by accident? Did you turn a Gmaj7 into an E7? See the first note in step 4; this will whack out a song in subtle but ear-stabbing ways.
- Get a chord chart. (There are probably very good ones on the internet; I haven't looked in a while.) If you're newish to guitar or aren't good at figuring out an arbitrary chord yourself ("What the fuck is a C#aug?!"), you're going to want to have a reference, because just as accidentally changing the written chord form (see previous note) will mess up the sound of your transposed song, so will just playing the wrong form of a given chord because you don't know how to play the right one. Stubbornness and impatience are your enemies, here: learn the new chords that you don't know how to play.
- If you've got a little wiggle room in workable keys—maybe you try a few things and find you'd be comfortable singing the song anywhere between C and E—then you can certainly pick the key that's easiest to play in for you from among those possibilities. Maybe some of the chords in E are a total pain to you but the chords in D or C are comfortable? Try 'em all and see which you like. (And to bring back the capo: If it plays easiest in D but sounds best in E? Play it in D and capo 2 and it's the best of both worlds.)
posted by cortex at 8:19 AM on August 13, 2008 [4 favorites]
So cortex is teaching you how to fish, and I'm just giving you a fish. But if you just want dinner immediately, I realize I gave you only part of the progression. Transposed down, but still using open chords, here it is:
Em G A C
Em Em B7 B7
Em G A C
Em B7 Em
posted by umbú at 8:35 AM on August 13, 2008
Em G A C
Em Em B7 B7
Em G A C
Em B7 Em
posted by umbú at 8:35 AM on August 13, 2008
Heh. Yeah, to be clear, there should be another step up front there:
0. There's nothing wrong with getting someone to transpose something for you if it's more convenient for all involved. Sometimes you just need a fishwich.
posted by cortex at 8:39 AM on August 13, 2008
0. There's nothing wrong with getting someone to transpose something for you if it's more convenient for all involved. Sometimes you just need a fishwich.
posted by cortex at 8:39 AM on August 13, 2008
"Fishwich in E minor! Hold the capos!"
posted by lothar at 9:37 AM on August 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by lothar at 9:37 AM on August 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
Everyone, especially cortex thank you so much for your help, i think i have it sussed.
posted by ashaw at 10:05 AM on August 13, 2008
posted by ashaw at 10:05 AM on August 13, 2008
i think i have it sussed.
No no! No sus chords! :-)
posted by danb at 10:22 AM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
No no! No sus chords! :-)
posted by danb at 10:22 AM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Don't knock the capo, though...
See? You can always trust cortex for capoble advice.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:52 PM on August 13, 2008
See? You can always trust cortex for capoble advice.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:52 PM on August 13, 2008
Who knocks capos? Bring them to me. I will destroy them! I think the whole "flavour" of the sound of a guitar -any guitar - is improved immeasurably with a 2nd fret capo. Can I be the only one in the world who thinks this? And I've found that if you're recording 2 guitarists at once, having one of them play a capo'd transposition can make the whole thing shine.
posted by Jofus at 1:27 AM on August 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Jofus at 1:27 AM on August 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
Oh yeah, any time I'm doubling an open-position guitar part, the double will be capoed. Really great sound there. And solo, if the key fits my voice that way, I'll play capo 2 or 4. It definitely does sound better, at least on my lousy, action-too-high acoustic.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:36 AM on August 14, 2008
posted by uncleozzy at 5:36 AM on August 14, 2008
Differently-positioned (with a capo assist or otherwise) doubled acoustic tracks are, yeah, a great way to add a little more sparkle to a simple recording. Works live, too, if you're a couple of guitarists standing around and you don't want to do anything more clever arrangement-wise.
posted by cortex at 6:31 AM on August 14, 2008
posted by cortex at 6:31 AM on August 14, 2008
I once saw David Rawlings play half a solo without a capo before slipping one on the 5th fret, so deftly that I barely spotted it, and finishing it in a totally different relative key.
That guy is so good that I want to strangle him.
posted by Jofus at 8:59 AM on August 14, 2008
That guy is so good that I want to strangle him.
posted by Jofus at 8:59 AM on August 14, 2008
David Rawlings 7th fret capo solo.
The capo as artistic device ideas mentioned in comments are good ideas. With a Shubb capo on the 2nd fret, but missing the low E string, you get an open D tuning (in E) without having to fret the chords differently. This allows for some fast and accurate flatpicking without ever tripping over your fingers, or being able to play a standard open G chord (320003) instead of the finger limiting 52000x.
And for humor, carry a capo to a jazz gig. Jazz guys love that.
posted by lothar at 10:45 AM on August 14, 2008
The capo as artistic device ideas mentioned in comments are good ideas. With a Shubb capo on the 2nd fret, but missing the low E string, you get an open D tuning (in E) without having to fret the chords differently. This allows for some fast and accurate flatpicking without ever tripping over your fingers, or being able to play a standard open G chord (320003) instead of the finger limiting 52000x.
And for humor, carry a capo to a jazz gig. Jazz guys love that.
posted by lothar at 10:45 AM on August 14, 2008
I was against capos until a recent session where a capo was simply required for the part. Full stop. No arguments. That was the part. Couldn't be played any other way. That was the job. So I used a capo and liked it. Eventually. Seems I have been being wrong about capos all my life. That's quite apart from the great things doable with capos linked above.
posted by motty at 2:05 PM on August 15, 2008
posted by motty at 2:05 PM on August 15, 2008
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The problem is that this will only work up to about a whole step of change (two frets, or the difference between a D and the C below it). You could capo up, but you'd probably end up with the guitar line higher than your vocals. If you don't mind this, go for it.
TLDR: Tune down a step/fret or two, or capo way up.
If you have a good recording of it, you might also find a piece of software that can do the pitch changes for you, and then practice to the modified recording. Note that this won't help much for a performance, but it might help you get the feel of the song.
The problem with key-changes on guitar (especially downwards) is that you almost always end up with an entirely different sound, which changes what the best melody line might be. Of course, I haven't heard this version, so it might not be true here, but it usually is.
You better post a recording when you're happy with it. :)
posted by blinks at 7:53 AM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]