The Craigslist Blues
July 31, 2009 6:27 PM
A wee vent, and a request for advice.
First of all, sorry for bailing on the VU challenge. The reason is that all my musical energy has been going into getting ready for a very cool audition. I've been enjoying everyone's contributions.
However, even if I pass the audition, I'll be in a classical-style situation, where everybody reads and the only rehearsals are right before gigs. Which leaves me time to do the other thing I want to do, which is play in a "regular" pop- or folk-ish band. And this is where I start singing the Craigslist blues.
It seems that Craigslist musician-wanted posts fall into three categories:
--those that I can immediately dismiss, because they're looking for something I can't do (play fusion or speedmetal, or change my age) or don't want to do (play music not to my taste either in style or quality). These are the vast majority.
--those that sound good onpaper screen, but don't provide a link to something I can hear. Inevitably, I succumb to temptation and respond to these, and inevitably, the music either isn't my thing or flat-out sucks, and worse, the poster gets really offended when I politely decline to try out for his band. These people really get on my tits.
--those that provide a link to music, and it's good! I want to be in this band! The problem here is that these only come along once every few months, and so far I haven't succeeded in joining any of them.
So, now that I've vented: can I get some tips from the assembled company? Specifically:
--is there a better place to look for band opportunities than Craigslist?
--if you were looking for a bass player, what would you want to see in an audition? I assume I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know what it is. I don't think it's my playing. One possibility is that because I'm not in a band, my demos all feature cheesy fake drums and my crappy vocals. Perhaps people don't hear past that to the bass playing? Perhaps my playing is worse than I think?
--anyone in the SF Bay Area need a bass player? Ideally for a melodic, not-incredibly-loud band?
posted by doubtfulpalace (9 comments total)
First of all, sorry for bailing on the VU challenge. The reason is that all my musical energy has been going into getting ready for a very cool audition. I've been enjoying everyone's contributions.
However, even if I pass the audition, I'll be in a classical-style situation, where everybody reads and the only rehearsals are right before gigs. Which leaves me time to do the other thing I want to do, which is play in a "regular" pop- or folk-ish band. And this is where I start singing the Craigslist blues.
It seems that Craigslist musician-wanted posts fall into three categories:
--those that I can immediately dismiss, because they're looking for something I can't do (play fusion or speedmetal, or change my age) or don't want to do (play music not to my taste either in style or quality). These are the vast majority.
--those that sound good on
--those that provide a link to music, and it's good! I want to be in this band! The problem here is that these only come along once every few months, and so far I haven't succeeded in joining any of them.
So, now that I've vented: can I get some tips from the assembled company? Specifically:
--is there a better place to look for band opportunities than Craigslist?
--if you were looking for a bass player, what would you want to see in an audition? I assume I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know what it is. I don't think it's my playing. One possibility is that because I'm not in a band, my demos all feature cheesy fake drums and my crappy vocals. Perhaps people don't hear past that to the bass playing? Perhaps my playing is worse than I think?
--anyone in the SF Bay Area need a bass player? Ideally for a melodic, not-incredibly-loud band?
Are you friendly with any solid working bands who would be willing to knock out a couple of basement demo tracks featuring you on bass playing songs that flatter you?
Or, collaborate with someone on MeFi Music whose music you like. Play the bass on their track, then use the result as your "demo tape". Several of my tracks that I constructed here in the US have bass on it played by a guy in Scotland, whose bass recording was sent to me over the internet and I mixed it in. I recently bought myself a bass, so now I'm doing it myself, but I bet there are people on here who wouldn't mind a contribution from a good bassist, and who wouldn't mind you using the song as a showcase.
posted by edlundart at 10:53 AM on August 1, 2009
Or, collaborate with someone on MeFi Music whose music you like. Play the bass on their track, then use the result as your "demo tape". Several of my tracks that I constructed here in the US have bass on it played by a guy in Scotland, whose bass recording was sent to me over the internet and I mixed it in. I recently bought myself a bass, so now I'm doing it myself, but I bet there are people on here who wouldn't mind a contribution from a good bassist, and who wouldn't mind you using the song as a showcase.
posted by edlundart at 10:53 AM on August 1, 2009
Thanks for the good ideas, guys.
you can't control other people, just yourself
Yeah, I'm usually pretty good with the Pastor Niebuhr/Marcus Aurelius thing, but after two guys in as many weeks who desperately needed a weaning intervention, I just had to vent.
have you tried putting out Musician Available listings selling yourself?
I've thought about it. It makes me a little nervous, but I can probably get over that. I should get the demo thing together first, though.
I think I get a passing grade on all of your criteria except the last; my native personality type is "opinionated overbearing geek," and while I'm always working on becoming better housebroken, you know what they say about dogs, tricks, leopards, spots, etc. I'm sure this has cost me a gig or two from people who (reasonably enough) just want a guy to play their music and not stick his oar in.
Are you friendly with any solid working bands who would be willing to knock out a couple of basement demo tracks featuring you on bass playing songs that flatter you?
Not really--most of my musician friends do experimental music--but this does give me some ideas, for example hiring an internet drummer to upgrade my demos. And I like edlundart's idea--I'd be happy to play bass on any MeFite track, whether it's demo-suitable or not.
Another thing I thought of is to go where the musicians are. I just found a Rise Up Singing group on meetup, there's bound to be some folk guitarists there.
posted by doubtfulpalace at 1:39 PM on August 1, 2009
you can't control other people, just yourself
Yeah, I'm usually pretty good with the Pastor Niebuhr/Marcus Aurelius thing, but after two guys in as many weeks who desperately needed a weaning intervention, I just had to vent.
have you tried putting out Musician Available listings selling yourself?
I've thought about it. It makes me a little nervous, but I can probably get over that. I should get the demo thing together first, though.
I think I get a passing grade on all of your criteria except the last; my native personality type is "opinionated overbearing geek," and while I'm always working on becoming better housebroken, you know what they say about dogs, tricks, leopards, spots, etc. I'm sure this has cost me a gig or two from people who (reasonably enough) just want a guy to play their music and not stick his oar in.
Are you friendly with any solid working bands who would be willing to knock out a couple of basement demo tracks featuring you on bass playing songs that flatter you?
Not really--most of my musician friends do experimental music--but this does give me some ideas, for example hiring an internet drummer to upgrade my demos. And I like edlundart's idea--I'd be happy to play bass on any MeFite track, whether it's demo-suitable or not.
Another thing I thought of is to go where the musicians are. I just found a Rise Up Singing group on meetup, there's bound to be some folk guitarists there.
posted by doubtfulpalace at 1:39 PM on August 1, 2009
I think I get a passing grade on all of your criteria except the last
Well, and it's very much just my criteria, and hypothetical at that because while I've joined a few other bands I've never gotten up the stones to start my own from scratch. Which makes it easy to have a nice long wishlist.
In practice I've found really laid back musicians to be a pretty mixed bag in other respects; you dream about snagging the unambitious genius with no life who is happy to do everything he can for the project, but in reality you usually either get the unambitious slacker with poor planning skills or the ambitious ego who is happy to do everything he can for only and precisely what he thinks should fly, or some complicated midpoint between those.
Opinions and the willingness to voice them and defend them to the point of reasonable compromise is generally a pretty key part of the band dynamic as far as I can tell, anyway. Might generate friction, but can be important to get good creative collaborative work done too.
ed's mefi-collab notion is good and (in retrospect) obvious, so that's probably worth considering. You could always grab the bull the by horns in that respect and just snag a track you like that you think lacks and would benefit some of your bass, poke the poster about it, and get on it.
posted by cortex at 1:53 PM on August 1, 2009
Well, and it's very much just my criteria, and hypothetical at that because while I've joined a few other bands I've never gotten up the stones to start my own from scratch. Which makes it easy to have a nice long wishlist.
In practice I've found really laid back musicians to be a pretty mixed bag in other respects; you dream about snagging the unambitious genius with no life who is happy to do everything he can for the project, but in reality you usually either get the unambitious slacker with poor planning skills or the ambitious ego who is happy to do everything he can for only and precisely what he thinks should fly, or some complicated midpoint between those.
Opinions and the willingness to voice them and defend them to the point of reasonable compromise is generally a pretty key part of the band dynamic as far as I can tell, anyway. Might generate friction, but can be important to get good creative collaborative work done too.
ed's mefi-collab notion is good and (in retrospect) obvious, so that's probably worth considering. You could always grab the bull the by horns in that respect and just snag a track you like that you think lacks and would benefit some of your bass, poke the poster about it, and get on it.
posted by cortex at 1:53 PM on August 1, 2009
Well, and it's very much just my criteria
No, I would say they're mine as well; it's a good description of what I aspire to (I may get a passing grade, but not honors yet). I would only add that intangible "I'm driving this bus" quality that the best bassists have, which I definitely have yet to achieve.
while I've joined a few other bands I've never gotten up the stones to start my own from scratch
I'm just the opposite; I've always started bands and been the primary writer (or one of them), and never joined an existing band. Right now I'm a little tired of cat-herding, though.
posted by doubtfulpalace at 3:09 PM on August 1, 2009
No, I would say they're mine as well; it's a good description of what I aspire to (I may get a passing grade, but not honors yet). I would only add that intangible "I'm driving this bus" quality that the best bassists have, which I definitely have yet to achieve.
while I've joined a few other bands I've never gotten up the stones to start my own from scratch
I'm just the opposite; I've always started bands and been the primary writer (or one of them), and never joined an existing band. Right now I'm a little tired of cat-herding, though.
posted by doubtfulpalace at 3:09 PM on August 1, 2009
Question, since you didn't really address this: have you tried putting out Musician Available listings selling yourself? It may be just as likely that a band that's looking could find you as that you would find them, and it's possible that some decent band you'd actually like to play with have just been lurking and searching rather than posting. If you haven't tried the "bassist available, interests include x,y,z, available for a,b,c..." route, give it a shot.
Amen. And don't forget the demo. It sounds like you're looking to get something going as a bassist not a songwriter, so take the crappy vocals out of your recordings, mix the bass well above the cheesy drums, and do your thing. You're better off putting it out there for the lurkers to find (who are typically the majority of users) than sitting back waiting for the type 3 ads (and having to compete with the other responders).
posted by waxboy at 4:06 PM on August 1, 2009
Amen. And don't forget the demo. It sounds like you're looking to get something going as a bassist not a songwriter, so take the crappy vocals out of your recordings, mix the bass well above the cheesy drums, and do your thing. You're better off putting it out there for the lurkers to find (who are typically the majority of users) than sitting back waiting for the type 3 ads (and having to compete with the other responders).
posted by waxboy at 4:06 PM on August 1, 2009
The more I think about it, the more I like this idea. A specialty, bass-centric demo plus a reasonably witty, not too braggy, not too modest post may very well do the trick--and if it doesn't, I'll take that as a sign to keep shedding.
Thanks, y'all!
posted by doubtfulpalace at 7:46 AM on August 2, 2009
Thanks, y'all!
posted by doubtfulpalace at 7:46 AM on August 2, 2009
I've joined a band from craigslist, the advert went something like "looking for a guitarist with a sense of humor. show booked for next month"
i called up and the rest is history.
the other time i've used craigslist is for my other band where we found a bassist who's just awesome and perfectly melded with the band.
I know from 'audtions' with craigslist people it can often be crap... the best way to find people who might want to make music with you and vice versa is to go see shows constantly in the area you live in.
SF is small compared to here (LA) but I know there is a vibrant music scene up there.
posted by nutate at 4:36 AM on August 12, 2009
i called up and the rest is history.
the other time i've used craigslist is for my other band where we found a bassist who's just awesome and perfectly melded with the band.
I know from 'audtions' with craigslist people it can often be crap... the best way to find people who might want to make music with you and vice versa is to go see shows constantly in the area you live in.
SF is small compared to here (LA) but I know there is a vibrant music scene up there.
posted by nutate at 4:36 AM on August 12, 2009
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The three-types-of-ads thing I can totally hear. Type 1 is a given, there's nothing to do for it; type 3 is great but rare is rare, all you can really do there is keep your eyes peeled and respond promptly when one comes up.
Type 2 shouldn't have to be a pain, frustrating as the grind can be. It sucks that people get all special snowflake on you for taking a pass, but you can't control other people, just yourself, so if it's worth it for you to sift through the Type 2s for a chance at and undiscovered Type 3, just keep at it and stay cheerful and detached.
Question, since you didn't really address this: have you tried putting out Musician Available listings selling yourself? It may be just as likely that a band that's looking could find you as that you would find them, and it's possible that some decent band you'd actually like to play with have just been lurking and searching rather than posting. If you haven't tried the "bassist available, interests include x,y,z, available for a,b,c..." route, give it a shot.
if you were looking for a bass player, what would you want to see in an audition?
Personally, I'd be looking for an ability to get, and a willingness to stay, right in the pocket; a good ear and head for changes so that I could run through the song once and have 'em not need anything more than that to jump in the song confidently; good melodic sensibility without getting all wankfest on me; genre/style blindness with both a capacity and an enthusiasm for mixing up the sound of what's going on from song to song; and a cheerful, laidback attitude with not a shred of drama in evidence.
Note that I have never actually gone looking for a bassist.
One possibility is that because I'm not in a band, my demos all feature cheesy fake drums and my crappy vocals.
I know this is shades of catch-22, but you could try and put down a pretty solid recording with a band to try and remove this from your list of worries. Are you friendly with any solid working bands who would be willing to knock out a couple of basement demo tracks featuring you on bass playing songs that flatter you?
posted by cortex at 8:19 AM on August 1, 2009