Band inversions
June 24, 2012 9:33 AM
Has anyone got experience of different 'inversions' of a band, like different inversions of a chord?
Recently I've been lucky enough to find a whole group of people who like playing together, get along together, and sound pretty good.
The interesting thing is that everybody plays a bunch of different instruments and sings. And everyone likes doing different stuff. So one idea is for us to have a stable group of musicians who constitute different 'virtual' bands in different 'inversions'.
For example, in the Sportswriters, I'd sing, Steen drums, Jason plays bass, Mike plays some lead, Diane does BVs and keys. Same setup in Diane's band except she sings and I playe keys. In Jason and Mike's band, Jason sings, Mike plays lead, I play rhythm and Steen drums. In Steen's band, Steen sings, I drum or play keys, Jason plays rhythm... and so on.
Each virtual band has its own leader, so Steen calls the shots for his stuff and I call the shots for mine.
Essentially we all have a backing band for our own stuff, and call the shots for our own stuff.
The different inversions would have different names, so you'd always know which inversion you're getting.
Does anyone have any experience of working this way? It sounds like it could work but I can imagine it might get complicated fast...
posted by unSane (18 comments total)
1 user marked this as a favorite
Recently I've been lucky enough to find a whole group of people who like playing together, get along together, and sound pretty good.
The interesting thing is that everybody plays a bunch of different instruments and sings. And everyone likes doing different stuff. So one idea is for us to have a stable group of musicians who constitute different 'virtual' bands in different 'inversions'.
For example, in the Sportswriters, I'd sing, Steen drums, Jason plays bass, Mike plays some lead, Diane does BVs and keys. Same setup in Diane's band except she sings and I playe keys. In Jason and Mike's band, Jason sings, Mike plays lead, I play rhythm and Steen drums. In Steen's band, Steen sings, I drum or play keys, Jason plays rhythm... and so on.
Each virtual band has its own leader, so Steen calls the shots for his stuff and I call the shots for mine.
Essentially we all have a backing band for our own stuff, and call the shots for our own stuff.
The different inversions would have different names, so you'd always know which inversion you're getting.
Does anyone have any experience of working this way? It sounds like it could work but I can imagine it might get complicated fast...
While we don't typically change the name of the group, our instrumentation tends to shift dramatically, sometimes within the same track.
For example, we're currently working on a single contiguous track that will hopefully end up being too long to fit on a single CD (even over-burned), and thus far, features 7 complete instrumentation shifts (we're at about the halfway point, and have already surpassed the length (and quality) of our previous longest track).
Limiting players in a group or band to a single instrument seems artificial and unnecessary, unless you're dealing with an ego situation like the Major mentioned.
Most of my favourite groups have or had examples where they each at least pulled double duty, and sometimes would go for full inversion, for any of a number of reasons.
posted by askmeaboutLOOM at 11:21 AM on June 24, 2012
For example, we're currently working on a single contiguous track that will hopefully end up being too long to fit on a single CD (even over-burned), and thus far, features 7 complete instrumentation shifts (we're at about the halfway point, and have already surpassed the length (and quality) of our previous longest track).
Limiting players in a group or band to a single instrument seems artificial and unnecessary, unless you're dealing with an ego situation like the Major mentioned.
Most of my favourite groups have or had examples where they each at least pulled double duty, and sometimes would go for full inversion, for any of a number of reasons.
posted by askmeaboutLOOM at 11:21 AM on June 24, 2012
Sounds like you've got yourself a collective going on!
posted by scruss at 12:42 PM on June 24, 2012
posted by scruss at 12:42 PM on June 24, 2012
No, I don't have any personal experience, but this sounds great to me. I can understand why you might have some trepidation about it. Shit could hit the fan pretty quickly, but I think the only real problem would be allocation of practice time.
Is the idea to produce enough material for each "band" to play an entire set at a show? Are you folks just writing, jamming and discovering?
posted by snsranch at 3:56 PM on June 24, 2012
Is the idea to produce enough material for each "band" to play an entire set at a show? Are you folks just writing, jamming and discovering?
posted by snsranch at 3:56 PM on June 24, 2012
Yeah I think the idea is for each 'band' to work on a complete set. We all have our own schtick that's totally different -- you know my stuff, Steen is all about classic pop (Elton John, Supertramp, fantastic fun to play), Jason is your grunge/emo guy and Diane is a rip-roaring Canuck chanteuse (holy hell, is she ever). So the idea is it frees us all to call the shots on our own stuff and not have to try to each of us pull together a band, which is extremely difficult when you live in the country.
The most surprising thing to me is that though we live in a VERY sparsely populated bit of Canada, we all sort of found each other by accident and hit it off. We were looking for a drummer for fucking ages before we found Steen -- who we were already playing in another band with but we just didn't know he played drums. But one day he sat down at the kit and, OKAY THEN.
I think the rehearsal time is likely to be the biggest issue. Everyone is sort of super-competent so that makes it a lot easier -- they always come totally prepared having done their homework. I think it will be a matter of getting the basic sets together and then it will be a lot simpler.
posted by unSane at 4:11 PM on June 24, 2012
The most surprising thing to me is that though we live in a VERY sparsely populated bit of Canada, we all sort of found each other by accident and hit it off. We were looking for a drummer for fucking ages before we found Steen -- who we were already playing in another band with but we just didn't know he played drums. But one day he sat down at the kit and, OKAY THEN.
I think the rehearsal time is likely to be the biggest issue. Everyone is sort of super-competent so that makes it a lot easier -- they always come totally prepared having done their homework. I think it will be a matter of getting the basic sets together and then it will be a lot simpler.
posted by unSane at 4:11 PM on June 24, 2012
If everybody loves everybody then it's a beautiful thing I guess.
I'm grouchy and cynical, so my mind instantly goes to that thing when you're in a band, the "hey guys, let's do my song!" bandmember. And it's kind of a shitty song but everybody sort of begrudgingly does it because it's fair and you don't want to ruffle any feathers or hurt any feelings. I can't imagine being in a whole band that exists on that premise; entire rehearsals and live sets of "let's do my song"-guy's songs. But if everyone's equally awesome and equally enthusiastic about everyone else, then right on.
Also, if each band has it's own identity, it seems like too many bands to be in. For me it was hard enough being in one. Would you be like, 'at today's rehearsal we're the Flashdrives' or would you just have one big normal rehearsal and switch instruments?
Tangentially, when I was in a band in the 90's, the bass player (who joined as a bass player) was really a guitar player so he was always trying to switch; he wanted to do the whole "everybody change instruments between songs" thing which we thought was sort of a dumb Sloan gimmick and no one was really into it...he only succeeded as far as switching to rhythm guitar for his one or two songs. I kind of just wanted to play guitar at the time, I had no interest in playing anything else. Ironically, I have to play everything myself now. So there's that.
posted by chococat at 9:17 PM on June 24, 2012
I'm grouchy and cynical, so my mind instantly goes to that thing when you're in a band, the "hey guys, let's do my song!" bandmember. And it's kind of a shitty song but everybody sort of begrudgingly does it because it's fair and you don't want to ruffle any feathers or hurt any feelings. I can't imagine being in a whole band that exists on that premise; entire rehearsals and live sets of "let's do my song"-guy's songs. But if everyone's equally awesome and equally enthusiastic about everyone else, then right on.
Also, if each band has it's own identity, it seems like too many bands to be in. For me it was hard enough being in one. Would you be like, 'at today's rehearsal we're the Flashdrives' or would you just have one big normal rehearsal and switch instruments?
Tangentially, when I was in a band in the 90's, the bass player (who joined as a bass player) was really a guitar player so he was always trying to switch; he wanted to do the whole "everybody change instruments between songs" thing which we thought was sort of a dumb Sloan gimmick and no one was really into it...he only succeeded as far as switching to rhythm guitar for his one or two songs. I kind of just wanted to play guitar at the time, I had no interest in playing anything else. Ironically, I have to play everything myself now. So there's that.
posted by chococat at 9:17 PM on June 24, 2012
he wanted to do the whole "everybody change instruments between songs" thing which we thought was sort of a dumb Sloan gimmick and no one was really into it
I'll take "things no US band has ever uttered" for $100, Alex.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 1:28 AM on June 25, 2012
I'll take "things no US band has ever uttered" for $100, Alex.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 1:28 AM on June 25, 2012
I'm grouchy and cynical, so my mind instantly goes to that thing when you're in a band, the "hey guys, let's do my song!" bandmember.
That's pretty much exactly the scenario we're trying to avoid, really. It's my definition of hell.
I made it clear with the 'Writers that we were going to be doing my stuff and I was going to call the shots (something I've never done before, resulting in plodding miserably through other people's songs that I didn't like) but the quid pro quo is that I said "but I'll back you up separately on anything you want to play".
I guess this is just a generalization of that...
I suspect that it will shake out so one or two of the inversion become dominant, just because of the personalities involved.
posted by unSane at 5:21 AM on June 25, 2012
That's pretty much exactly the scenario we're trying to avoid, really. It's my definition of hell.
I made it clear with the 'Writers that we were going to be doing my stuff and I was going to call the shots (something I've never done before, resulting in plodding miserably through other people's songs that I didn't like) but the quid pro quo is that I said "but I'll back you up separately on anything you want to play".
I guess this is just a generalization of that...
I suspect that it will shake out so one or two of the inversion become dominant, just because of the personalities involved.
posted by unSane at 5:21 AM on June 25, 2012
re Sloan, I saw them last summer up here with about 200 people in our tiny town hall (that was a trip in itself) and they manage to pull off the instrument swapping because somehow they manage to sound pretty much the same whoever's behind the kit. I assume their longevity has something to do with the whole 'democratic' thing but I think you have to be a Nice Canadian Guy (tm) to pull that off, and I most definitely am not.
posted by unSane at 5:25 AM on June 25, 2012
posted by unSane at 5:25 AM on June 25, 2012
This could work, given the right chemistry between band member. For myself, I'm not so sure it would work. Though in most other situations I'm a pretty mellow person I've learned that in musical contexts I have to be in charge of all the things or I get really annoyed pretty quickly, and end up quitting.
So if it was my band doing this it would have be my inversion that ended up dominating otherwise I'd probably just drop everybody all at once one day, without warning, and never return.
This is probably why I haven't been in a band in six years.
Yes. I 'm a terrible human being.
posted by Doleful Creature at 7:57 AM on June 25, 2012
So if it was my band doing this it would have be my inversion that ended up dominating otherwise I'd probably just drop everybody all at once one day, without warning, and never return.
This is probably why I haven't been in a band in six years.
Yes. I 'm a terrible human being.
posted by Doleful Creature at 7:57 AM on June 25, 2012
I always seem to end up as more or less the musical arranger no matter what we do (since I'm usually the one who writes out all the charts and stuff) but I quite enjoy doing it for other people, even if its music I didn't think I like, since you usually end up finding something to like in what you play. I do think you have to be a martinet for your own material though.
posted by unSane at 9:59 AM on June 25, 2012
posted by unSane at 9:59 AM on June 25, 2012
I kind of just wanted to play guitar at the time, I had no interest in playing anything else. Ironically, I have to play everything myself now.
An irony that I reluctantly share - although I kind of wonder whether we've all got musical alter egos. I'm a guitar player to the core, but in another dimension I'd definitely be a drummer. The sound of a mic-ed up kit in a big space is one of the most thrilling things - never fails to raise the hairs on the back of my neck. And if I'd been born a couple of decades earlier I'd have turned up my nose at the old "dust on the needle" jazz guitar (yuck) and been a saxophonist.....
posted by MajorDundee at 11:25 AM on June 25, 2012
An irony that I reluctantly share - although I kind of wonder whether we've all got musical alter egos. I'm a guitar player to the core, but in another dimension I'd definitely be a drummer. The sound of a mic-ed up kit in a big space is one of the most thrilling things - never fails to raise the hairs on the back of my neck. And if I'd been born a couple of decades earlier I'd have turned up my nose at the old "dust on the needle" jazz guitar (yuck) and been a saxophonist.....
posted by MajorDundee at 11:25 AM on June 25, 2012
In another dimension I'd be a better composer than Bach, a better keyboardist than Liszt, and better looking then Brad Pitt or whatever-the-fuck. And I'd have all the money ever and would tour the world with my private orchestra giving out free concerts and ending world hunger at the same time. And my music would cause tyrants to quake in their boots, handing over their power to reasonable parliaments filled with non-assholes and everybody would have free healthcare and NASA would build a solar-powered rocket to Mars.
...as long as we're dreaming, I mean, go big right?
posted by Doleful Creature at 12:09 PM on June 25, 2012
...as long as we're dreaming, I mean, go big right?
posted by Doleful Creature at 12:09 PM on June 25, 2012
My favorite drummer is a talented multi-instrumetalist who was growing increasingly unhappy with the bass players I would pair him with. Lately I have been hiring him to play bass instead and he is so much happier on the gig. His playing is much more sympathetic to the drums, the drummer can look to him for insight on what to do and in general my rhythm section is much tighter and appropriate to my music. In this case, it has been a very successful inversion!
posted by bonefish at 11:23 AM on July 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by bonefish at 11:23 AM on July 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
That is a great point, bonefish -- when you take people off their 'home' instrument they almost always become more sympathetic players, and more fun to play with -- more 'appropriate', exactly. You put a singer on drums and he'll notch it right back for the verses and not step over everything with fills. You put a drummer on bass and they play simple stuff super tight.
Guitarists of course are mostly a lost cause but you can always put sheet music in front of them -- that usually has them turning down pretty damn fast.
posted by unSane at 7:27 AM on July 2, 2012
Guitarists of course are mostly a lost cause but you can always put sheet music in front of them -- that usually has them turning down pretty damn fast.
posted by unSane at 7:27 AM on July 2, 2012
And the best way for each individual to really understand and co-develop the music is to rotate among all the instruments.
When I played in an American gamelan, it was expected that we'd learn all the different parts and rotate around the instruments regularly. That was great, and that was the only way we (a bunch of western musicians) could've built such a good understanding of the music and its structures.
posted by kalapierson at 6:19 AM on July 3, 2012
When I played in an American gamelan, it was expected that we'd learn all the different parts and rotate around the instruments regularly. That was great, and that was the only way we (a bunch of western musicians) could've built such a good understanding of the music and its structures.
posted by kalapierson at 6:19 AM on July 3, 2012
I do this sometimes when I'm doing overdubbed solo work, and it's surprisingly hard to tell which of me played the bass on what track. I chalk this up to my versatility and handsomeness.
posted by cortex at 10:32 AM on July 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by cortex at 10:32 AM on July 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Well -- a bit of an update. So far, to a certain extent, so good. Two bands are pretty much up and running - both sounding really good and totally different. I'm super happy about that because it means my band The Sportswriters finally picked up a terrific guitarist and drummer and are now in the process of getting my tricksy songs committed to heart.
I really thought finding people who are in sympathy with the music would be difficult in a buttfuck rural area but actually it turned out to be straightforward, although
getting everyone to groove in 15/8 has been a challenge -- standing in a circle yelling ELEPHANT ELEPHANT ELEPHANT TIGER TIGER TIGER until we go insane.
The biggest problem is, as we figured, time management. Most people can spare a maximum of two nights a week and quite often only one, and we figured it's counterproductive to attempt to rehearse more than one inversion in an evening. So that means we have to be honest about priorities to avoid letting each other down.
A regular schedule would really help but sadly every single one of us has irregular lives so every week's a new conundrum.
posted by unSane at 4:17 PM on July 21, 2012
I really thought finding people who are in sympathy with the music would be difficult in a buttfuck rural area but actually it turned out to be straightforward, although
getting everyone to groove in 15/8 has been a challenge -- standing in a circle yelling ELEPHANT ELEPHANT ELEPHANT TIGER TIGER TIGER until we go insane.
The biggest problem is, as we figured, time management. Most people can spare a maximum of two nights a week and quite often only one, and we figured it's counterproductive to attempt to rehearse more than one inversion in an evening. So that means we have to be honest about priorities to avoid letting each other down.
A regular schedule would really help but sadly every single one of us has irregular lives so every week's a new conundrum.
posted by unSane at 4:17 PM on July 21, 2012
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This sounds like one of those IQ test questions: if unSane sings, Jason plays drums and Diane does sit-ups, who's slacking off and scratching his balls?
Pulling your leg mate. No experience of anything like this but given that musos often have easily-bruised egos I'd be slightly wary about stepping on sensitive ickle tootsies. But I'd give it a good go! Good luck!
posted by MajorDundee at 10:35 AM on June 24, 2012